1Settimana·

Switch to dividends?

Hi all - I had planned to expand my portfolio a few weeks ago because of an inheritance. Now a few things have happened: Money is there and at the same time the company is asking if I would like to quit in return for a severance payment. Yup, maybe I have. Do something other than IT, for example ... Volunteering at the food bank, riding my bike and Vespa, sports, traveling & chilling or something... But that's another story :-)

But does it work financially? Let's assume about 1.2 million in total (600k invested, 600k cash). House paid off, 2 kids out, wife self-employed, but only a small amount. I'm 58, I can retire at 62, with official deductions. That will therefore be a manageable pension in total. That's why I'll need monthly cash in 3 years. The severance payment would last until then. Now I'm thinking about reallocating a large part of my portfolio from tech, world ETF, S&P and some individual stocks to high-dividend stocks: 10% $ALV (-1,42%), 10% $MUV2 (-0,49%) , 10% $O (-0,07%) , 10% $VHYL (-1,8%) , 10% $WGLD (+0,12%) , 20% $IDVY (-0,3%) , 10% $XMME (-0,75%) , 10% $XEON (+0,02%) (in case the dividend falls in volatile phases and to bridge payout dates). dates), 10% play money GTAA, 2Spy, Momentum etc----hahaha, actually I just wanted to mention @Epi mention.

With the above you get about 4% dividend. At 800k = 32000-25%= 24000= just under 2k net on top. That should be enough. The assets won't grow that much, but cash per month is enough. What do you think? Completely wrong way of thinking? Forgotten something important?

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53 Commenti

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It's sad to see how "little" dividend comes out of 1 million... 🫣 especially when you consider how long you have saved and worked for it.
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@Max095 if you go via ETFs you have at least 30% tax-free due to partial exemption
Are already at 2200€ with 4% div return
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@GoDividend wow 😮
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1Settimana
@Max095 the state says thank you...... These people who take the white out of our eyes!!! (And then distribute it completely wrong!)
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@Max095 Perhaps you can also add a few securities with higher yields to a limited extent - of course the risk then also increases, but this is of course a matter of consideration.

For example, $IAPD, $JEGP or, in the case of shares, $RIO or $BATS would be acceptable.
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I would roughly calculate how many euros I need to live on a monthly basis (also think about health insurance, for example, which you might have to pay yourself until you retire), add a buffer and inflation of 3% and also include reserves for the house. Then extrapolate this sum. Once until retirement and then from retirement. If this all works out in terms of costs, reallocating is certainly an alternative. Instead of individual dividend stocks, you could also use a high dividend ETF. This will also yield around 4%. Or you could invest a small portion (e.g. your play money) in a BDC or the Aberdeen India Fund. You can also get a 10% dividend there. All in all, if I were in your shoes, I would do it immediately. You'll never get back the time you've given yourself and you don't know what will happen later. You could always do a mini job or a midi job on the side if you wanted to. This would also solve the problem with health insurance.
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@Transporter perfect. That's exactly what I did. Extrapolation up to retirement with KV and house etc . Fits approximately with the settlement.
Then I asked myself: why more and more assets? Better to stop now, at 59 I can still do EVERYTHING = carpe diem. However, I would like to remain a volunteer. I've received money for my work for 30 years, now I'd rather do work for people or institutions that need it ☺️
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@VillaSpilla I can only tell you one thing from experience. There is no calculation that holds. With more free time, you simply need more money than before. For this and other reasons, I endorse what the previous speaker said
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@Transporter

I understand your suggestion with the mini-job, but it can't be that you even have to think about something like that in Germany in your situation. It just goes to show once again that one million is worth nothing in Germany...
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@bull_investor_1998 So I feel quite "saved" with that. I've worked quite internationally so far and my colleagues in PL Warsaw or RO Bucharest or IT Milan don't tell me anything really enviable from their country in terms of retirement (we're all of a similar age). Even my colleague from CH Basel is no different - the income, pension and bonuses are really high, but so are the taxes and money for housing and so on.
@bull_investor_1998 For me, the midi job was primarily about covering health insurance, if this had not been taken into account. I know people who get bored after a while. You could cover something like that. But the creator already seems to have a good plan that covers all eventualities and so doesn't need to rely on it. But in general I agree with you, it's an indictment of poverty if you still have to ask yourself with such a fortune whether it's enough because the state has its hands out everywhere.
@VillaSpilla If I were to apply your situation to myself, then I would say for myself: it fits, the plan can be implemented.
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I'm much younger, but even with this level of assets, the risk would be too high for me. If I were in your situation, I would look for a job that suited me (both in terms of scope and activity. Maybe something similar to what you do now but for 20 hours or something else). The salary should simply be enough to cover the upkeep of the house and food. Then you have health insurance etc. I would invest the money in dividend stocks - I wouldn't shift anything around. You can then either spend the dividends or reinvest them. Depending on the situation.
For me, the risk of the money being gone in the end or not being enough would simply be too high. If you don't like your new job, you can always quit. All without pressure. Not a recommendation, just my thought 💭
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@AbteilungsleiterDerLiebe But why should the risk be too great? After all, the amount is not getting any smaller. The goal is to live off the dividend and pension. And my wishes aren't getting any bigger, no Ferrari, no boat, no horses, no Rollex 🤣😜.
I just like the idea of charitable work, just to see life from the other side. Doing something similar somewhere else would somehow be too boring for me. I know that I'm good at it. ☺️
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@AbteilungsleiterDerLiebe What risk do you mean? In the end, we're only talking about the lost pension payments for the next 3 years. After that, I would have quit anyway and started something completely different as a pensioner, something meaningful - rather without pay. And you should be able to top up your pension with around 1 million without running an incalculable risk - I think :-)
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@VillaSpilla If you can maintain your lifestyle that well or know how to do so, then it's all good. I would just see the opportunity to make a living from my work and then let the compound interest effect work for me for a few more years.
For example, I was thinking of working for the Red Cross or in another area. Earnings would simply be of secondary importance to me.
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The market is hard for professionals at 30, now imagine trying to get a job at 58 and part time!
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1Settimana
@Dividendenopi think your advice might be needed here.
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Good basis, I have pretty much the same assets to invest, 1.16 million. Paid-off own house and two-family house rented out, partially financed for tax reasons, rental income after interest before repayment and taxes just under 1000 euros per month, my portfolio shown here with dividend shares gross dividend per year currently 28.5k, invested 335k. Will be increased to approx. 400k. 210k in government bonds, corporate bonds and various certificates, bullet bonus certificates and quarterly distributing certificates, 35k in other ETFs not shown here, a theme ETF and a dividend ETF. 25k with a secondary broker for gambling and trading. Around 600k -still- in call money to a small extent and in fixed-term deposits with a slightly higher interest rate of between 3.85 and 4.5% from the beginning of last year as an interest staircase with a remaining term of 2026 to 2028, will be successively invested in the markets at maturity. I will soon be 61 and stopped working on January 1 this year. My wife is still working part-time as a pharmacist. All in all, I'm very defensively positioned and can still make a very comfortable living from it. That's just an example without going into too much detail.
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Thanks for the feedback @Dividendenopi! That sounds pretty much the same 🙂 (except you have more 😇😅). I lack experience in the defensive area. In the last 10-15 years, I've been more in the greed eats brains 🧠 area 😝. Learned a lot, lost a lot in many places, gained a lot in others. Overall, nowhere near as good as a world ETF over the last ten years. But it's never too late to adjust.

28K gross dividend with just under 350k invested is great. That's almost 8% dividend. I had only calculated 4% for the securities. Then I'll have to tweak the selection of securities again. I only picked out the ones above 👆justETF and then ran them through the AI 2-3 times. I'll take a look at your titles 🙂🙂👍🏻👍🏻.

I haven't even looked at government bonds yet, I had rather looked at corporate bonds - I actually had a nice euro bond here $EHBA. But I'll have to look again, I'm not familiar with it.

I would also like to add 2-3 acc ETFs to the portfolio - the S&P500 etc. should also help a bit in the portfolio over the next ten years.

Okay, and I will also keep 2-3 individual stocks. I've had Allianz for ten years and it's always helped me a lot, so I'll keep 150k in there.

It would be nice if I could ask you something again, although that's not possible here 1:1 correctly, only via the forum! Not bad, but it's specifically our case for the young 🧒 community and perhaps boring. 😅
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@VillaSpilla It's all good, you can ask whatever you want. I have no secrets and if others find that boring then they can keep scrolling 😇. And comments about how much performance I give away and the average monthly returns are never enough and anyway, I'm happy to endure them. 🤭
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@Dividendenopi Very good 😇. Then I'll collect and check. I'll have to see why I only managed 4% as a dividend and you 8% .... Maybe your vola is higher, let's see. 👀
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@VillaSpilla The vola is definitely higher with high dividend payers such as $HAUTO or $TRMD A. The latter have been disappointing so far this year with significantly lower dividends than expected in addition to share price losses, but will still achieve a 10% return. Tobacco like $MO I am also just under 10 due to my equity, $BATS 9, $IMB 8, and e.g. $VZ 7. The Norwegian energy stocks are yielding well over 10 and even 12. A bit of effort with the withholding tax, but at some point it is routine and can be done in a quarter of an hour. $OMV and also $MUX are above 10. That's a first orientation
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@VillaSpilla we are in a similar situation :) my wife and i are both 37, have built up a portfolio of approx. 1.2 million (600k invested, 600k cash call money)-> focused on dividends/distributions/premium from the beginning -> we have an average distribution yield of 6%, i'll link you to our values $XDWL, $JEPQ, $QYLE, $TDIV, $FGEQ, $JEGP, $MAIN, $ARCC, $XSX7

This is our "base". At the moment, all earnings are reinvested directly. We do it this way because we simply don't want to follow a classic withdrawal plan later on.

We also have a few other individual shares in the portfolio that we play with. But the core remains the same :)
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1Settimana
@Dividendenopi I like to read along.
Not that I'm stepping on anyone's toes, but I'm going to say 10% dividends from a 1 million portfolio will leave you with 900k in your portfolio and 100k paid out. Doesn't it make more sense to take non-distributing ETFs and then benefit from the individual withdrawal and partial exemption?
I have now invested in an ACC ETF in order to build up as much wealth as possible, as I don't need dividends now and the tax is partly offset.

Now coming to VillaSpilla's situation. Doesn't it make more sense to leave everything as it is now and take a few stocks that you like. Then take them as you need them. Or just a good mix.
Only invest in what you really understand. Don't quite understand bonds either 😅
I have the feeling you want to throw your entire strategy overboard all of a sudden, but it's worked so far, hasn't it?
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@Joris Absolutely. Don't want to reallocate by force either. But currently too high vola with the tech focus ( $SNOW $AMZN $NVDA $AAPL $QQQ etc.) ... I think I hold 50%, also the S&P500 and the MSCI ex USA, the rest more defensively. Bonds or gold or silver are somewhat anti-cyclical. However, I will also "adjust" at a moderate speed, as I still have some time. I just have to get away from overnight money, 2% is simply eaten up by inflation. And I'll also check again with the ACC ETF. Although I know that I need something every month, so planned withdrawals have to be well planned :-)
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@Maveric2005 RESPECT. A portfolio like that at 37 is mega. Great job, fine composition and at that age you can easily ride the vola and breathe away the draw downs :-)
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1Settimana
@VillaSpilla sounds good. You need a certain amount each month, but how do you handle the dividends? Each share has a different payout period and amount.
So these questions are also constantly on my mind, I'm only 36 but I'm thinking about how I'll do it in around 25 years' time 😅
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@Joris My naive idea was that I fix an approx. annual volume that I think I need. Let's just say 24k net. I always buffer the different payouts with a $XEON with -let's say 50k- so that I stay liquid. ...
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Your plan sounds quite tempting at first. But I would advise you to calculate it very carefully and honestly. Of course it's a lot of money, but it's not a huge amount to be able to live off the interest either (I don't mean to sound like a puke). As you say, it's a good basis to let the actual pension work together with the severance pay and to use it.

I would like to throw a few points into the room:
- Inheritance: depending on how much inheritance has been received, the allowances may not be sufficient. Especially if real estate is included, the tax office will try to value these assets very highly (if necessary, have a counter-appraisal carried out). Inheritance tax may therefore have to be taken into account.

- Take inflation into account: Inflation is a factor. Please bear in mind that your own cost of living is constantly rising. This should not be underestimated and should be taken into account for future living costs.

Personally, I am 50 years old and no longer regularly employed - I gave up my self-employment 1.5 years ago. Since then, I have essentially been living off the rental income from my properties. The situation is not directly comparable, as I don't have a state pension and also have two small children to look after at home. Originally, I thought that everything would be 'easily' sufficient for me - in principle it is, but there are months with increased liquidity requirements when I start moving back and forth between accounts. I had originally imagined this would be easier. So my advice would be to plan a little too much rather than too little buffer.
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@NichtRelevant Thank you very much for your experience and tips. Even if perhaps not directly comparable, I am grateful to be able to "incorporate" all these different perspectives and experiences here. 👍🏻👍🏻
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In your situation, I would switch to dividend (growth) ETFs, rent out the house, buy a sailing boat and take my wife around the world ⛵ (that's my plan as soon as I'm 60, let's see if it works 😅)
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@Da_Fischi
Wouldn't the risk be too great? 😱
You don't even know his wife...

Greetings
🥪
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@Stullen-Portfolio meant my wife, of course 🤣
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@Da_Fischi hahaha.... Howler on Pentecost Sunday .... :-)
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A little tip about the termination agreement, it's best if it states that they are terminating you, then you are directly entitled to unemployment benefit, but you don't have to register directly with the office. I would include the 2 years in your planning, if you haven't already done so. At 58, they usually leave you alone. However, I don't know the exact rules on asset offsetting etc. I only know from one or two colleagues that it makes sense to retire early with a severance payment, and that you should also observe the one-fifth rule so that the tax doesn't eat up your severance payment.

You might also be a little better off in tax terms, but that depends on your personal tax rate.

Now to the question, in itself you can of course do this well, especially if a steady cash flow is important to you, also frees you from the constant consideration of what to sell (if you have individual shares instead of etc.). But the bottom line is that it doesn't really make a big difference whether you relax or live off dividends. However, taxes are incurred when you reallocate, so it's best to calculate whether it's worth it. I would probably only invest the inheritance in high-dividend stocks and especially aristocrats
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@Blueyy perfect. with the company is still at the beginning. I don't have a clear offer yet. Fifths and ALG etc. are then to be checked. Thanks again for the tip :-)
Yes, it may also go in that direction with the inheritance. I just need to get away from the extreme tech volatility (with a potential official drawdown), which $SNOW and $GOOGL etc. and tech stocks are more for the youngsters :-)
You don't have to preserve your assets. If you use up the money by the time you're 90+, you can live comfortably. And at 90+ you probably won't care and can still sell the house.
The important thing is to plan for taxes and health insurance. Also plan for a dynamic. Your €2000 won't be worth much in 30 years.
It's best to find a good payout calculator that takes all these things into account. I like to use this one:

https://m.zinsen-berechnen.de/entnahmeplan.php
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Very good, thank you
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1Settimana
Great idea: time is worth more than money, and doing good for others is good for yourself. About the investment goals: Maybe take a look at this ETF: $EUHD
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Reallocating is actually nonsense, as a lot of taxes are incurred when selling. And there is absolutely no difference between dividends and non-dividend-paying positions, from which you can sell parts as appropriate. If money comes in now, if dividends are so important to you, I would just go into dividend stocks (as before, it doesn't really make a difference), but reallocate what's already there? Hmm... rather no.

In my opinion, partial sales are also much more flexible than dividends, where you either have too much each month or still have to sell something.
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As I have always used strategies that are not B&H, apart from 3-4 stocks, my tax burden has been pretty much "paid off" over the last few years, apart from a few thousand. As I've written before, I'm not under any compulsion to reallocate, I'm primarily interested in a defensive focus with lower volatility. Whether I increase the monthly cash via withdrawals or dividends - we'll see. I got a lot of great tips today and will give it some more thought. Thanks 🙏🏼
@VillaSpilla Then you can do as you please. In my opinion, going for dividends, preferably so that the right amount comes out every month, is a waste of time. Partial sales in a growing portfolio equal dividends.
For the longer positions, I would make sure that you leverage the fifo principle with partial portfolio transfers.
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@Madhatter5566 Yes, it can also go in that direction - perhaps a mixture. Taxes don't affect me that much, as I don't primarily have B&H, but rather strategies that have had a lot of reallocations. E.g. SpyTips, where I am in cash 2-4 times in a year with a large volume in $CSPX. I tried not only to take the bulls with me, but also to avoid the bears (spoiler: it didn't always really work out, but it was exciting :-) )
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1Settimana
There are already many good tips and experience reports. Two more thoughts from me:

1. I would not rely on one strategy alone. Nobody knows the future and strategy diversification is just as important as asset diversification, if not more so. I am thinking in particular of the four classic investment pillars of economic growth (B&H ACWI, growth stocks), defensive income (bonds, dividends), alpha (3xGTAA, Zocks), tail risk protection (gold, cash, GTAA). Each concentration on one strategy has its risks. In my opinion, 2/3 in one asset class of a pillar (dividend stocks) is too much.

2. do you know mylife invest? Costs approx. 0.5%pa, but you get a tax-protected ETF wrapper, tax-free inheritance and the option of a fixed monthly withdrawal. Maybe it's worth doing the math?
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@Epi Mega. Thanks for the look. AND YES, I see asset diversification more important than yes. The B&H US / Euro / Asia diversification is no longer enough.
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I would put 5% in BTC after all
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I can't stop wondering what you've been up to that the company wants you out and even pays you for it? Please let me know 🥹
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Sounds good - you're a few years ahead - I'm in my early 50s and have similar plans for my late 50s - provided nothing major changes.

Have you taken into account the fact that some tax will be incurred if you reallocate the 600k investment, i.e. there will be a little less left for the rest of the investment?
I've already calculated a couple of scenarios for the decumulation phase, including inflation and inflation-adjusted withdrawals. I will rely on targeted withdrawals rather than dividends, as I will most likely not need the same amount of pension allowance every month. And if I'm still pursuing my hobby of trading in a few years' time, I'll need to withdraw little to nothing.
I would also try to get more out of a dividend-oriented portfolio. I get about 1200 euros with about 400k invested. So also about 4%.
I currently have a broad spread of shares in several countries and several sectors.
But I am also investing in higher percentage dividend stocks that are currently undervalued. In other words, a P/B ratio of less than 1 with good company figures. Some ideas. Stellantis. Höegh Autoliners, Wallenius Willhelmsen, Cardinal Energy, Armour Res REIT... of course the risk is higher. You just have to weigh up whether you are prepared to take the higher risk.
I am, if only because of the solid property I have.
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