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Was the pandemic a bad time to start investing? (Market review & €100,000 portfolio performance update)

It is April 2020, and I am a young and hopeful student who has been studying the theory of financial education for several years and decide to take advantage of the supposedly unique opportunity of the "crash" to finally enter the stock market despite limited capital.


Theoretically, the idea was that it should be easy to get in during a difficult market phase, as all assets should be cheap due to the uncertainty. At least cheaper than they were before. When markets fall, multiples fall too. So even if you don't get everything right or even get a lot wrong, from a purely mathematical point of view you should still be better off than someone who got in in 2018 or 2019. So far, this logic is actually conclusive.


But the pandemic crash was not a normal crash. And I actually find it far too interesting not to talk about it.


In my experience, there is still a lot of talk today about the new markets in 2001 and the real estate bubble in 2008. However, the exciting market phase of the pandemic has hardly been looked back on at all. This may also be due to the fact that we don't feel we can look back at it yet, as we can still feel the effects and have barely really overcome them. However, it is now slowly becoming apparent that a new era has dawned on the market, which is primarily about tariffs, trade deficits and currencies.


But what makes the pandemic a bad time to start?


If you look back at the charts of some securities (and for the sake of clarity, I would like to refer mainly to equities here), you can see several things.


In the case of shares with a gravitas such as $BRK.B (+0.05%) only a tiny corona dent can be seen on the long-term chart. From this you can see that it didn't really matter when you invested. However, the earlier the better. It was important to invest at all, but it was not necessary to wait for a specific point in time. However, this even applies to clear pandemic losers such as $BKNG (-0.26%) and $EVD (-0.14%) .


For some stocks like $AMZN (-0.59%) and $MSFT (-0.75%) the entry point during the actual crash was not ideal. There was an optimal entry point for both stocks recently, but this would not have been apparent until 2-3 years after the crash. Both stocks survived the pandemic almost unscathed, but were then affected by severe secondary factors that put the business under pressure.


Stocks like $TMO (-0.33%) or $AFX (-0.6%) were considered pandemic winners. You could have picked them up at the beginning of the crash ... or you could have left them alone and got them back 5 years later at exactly the same price as before the pandemic started.


And now the worst category: hype stocks. The absolute catastrophe happened to all those who were looking for opportunities where there were actually none. Whether investments in emerging markets or hopes for the future in $ZM (-0.47%) and $FVRR (-5.27%) - Money that was taken out of the broad market ended up largely concentrated in assets that will not reach their ATH for another 20 years. Anyone wanting to be in it for the long term found their Waterloo in the pandemic. Some companies such as $EUZ (-2.2%) or $SRT (-0.68%) may well be doing great things. But here the "crash" was simply the absolute worst entry opportunity of the entire decade.


Correction Edit: I only found a group of stocks that I really needed to buy in the crash and that was Big Oil. There were certainly other stocks that were a bit cheaper at the time. But for the most part, it was not essential to enter at the low point in order to make good returns. That is what made this market phase so difficult. The good stocks were NOT extremely cheap, but there were many bad stocks that were extremely expensive. For newcomers, such a situation is incredibly difficult to navigate.


I closed 2020 with +12% and 2021 with +8% only to get a -22% in 2022. So I didn't make any returns at all in the first 3 years and just paid a lesson.

I thought I would have been smart at least not to have entered in 2018/2019 when all shares were valued much higher on average. But I might have gained experience in these two years so that I would have had more guidance in 2020. Or I could have started in 2022/2023, when there were no more hype stocks and you could pour money into the market with a watering can and it almost always turned into a flower.


I recently saw the portfolio of a friend who restarted his portfolio in 2022. Almost the same portfolio size as mine. However, while I have made 7% p.a. since the start of my portfolio, he has an IZF of 15%. With a portfolio size of 100k, this means that I am sitting on €12,000 book profits and he on €33,000


Backtests are currently showing that my strategy has really put me to sleep and put me to sleep by ALL known and common indices over 5 years. The only consolation here is really the 3-year performance, where it is clear that I can keep up with the major indices and also leave a few big names behind me.


So on a positive note: I'm getting better.

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45 Comments

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There is always someone who does it better than you.
Maybe your friend drives with more risk to get the 15%, but you might have more stability🧐
Comprehensive insurance is more expensive than third-party liability, but you're in a better position in the event of a claim. And no, I don't work for Check24😄
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@Mark777 In this case, it doesn't really apply. I also have hardly any defensive stocks. However, the choice of shares didn't actually play such a big role. The decisive factor was investing €60,000 as a one-off investment over 3 years vs. €15,000 annual savings installment over 5 years

Calculated according to TTWROR, this is +50% versus +40%. So the shares didn't do that much better, but the period is much shorter, which is why there is such a huge difference.
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In 30 years' time, you'll be glad you got in in 2020 and didn't wait until the total crash at some point in the future...
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@DividendenAlpaka That's right, but I probably shouldn't have waited at all in the 2010s, but simply started with €50 a month
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Thank you for the interesting analysis, and even if I basically believe, as you obviously do, that the investment time is much more important than the time of entry, I don't quite agree with you that there was no group of stocks for which the corona crash was not a good time to enter. this is certainly true for some stocks from the DAX. I started investing my money in shares just at this time and bought $DTE, $HEI and $ALV, for example, at what are probably pretty good prices from today's perspective. I also bought $SAP and $BMW, which, unlike the first two mentioned, I have unfortunately or fortunately since sold again. In the case of other stocks - and this should not be concealed - things went badly wrong, prime examples being $SRT and $BIKE 🤷‍♂️
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@Marsellus $DTE like the others, clearly falls into the 1st category mentioned. It didn't matter whether you bought the share at €14 in 2015 or €14 in 2016 or €14 in 2017 or €14 in 2018 or €14 in 2019 .... or just €12 in 2020.

Today, the share is at €34 and it doesn't matter whether you made a profit of €20 or €22 per share. It really wasn't worth waiting for a crash, the important thing was to get in at all.
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Very interesting analysis. my investnent story begins in 2010 and in fact the years 2020 and 2021 were characterized by the greatest performance, of course also due to penny stocks and crypto. Without these, the real estate purchase in June 2021 would not have been possible.
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Buying oil during the corona dip was life changing for me and secured fat dividends
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@market_mastermind_25 You're totally right. How could I just forget about that? Oil is the missing group of stock that needed to be bought during the crisis to secure great returns. I wish I could pin your comment.
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Then why don't you choose Etfs? Mine takes time. Apart from that, I thought you were much older than me. Did I estimate you to be around 40 or did you just study again later? I also paid a lot of tuition fees and still have investments that I still believe in but probably wouldn't buy again today. You just have to ask yourself what you're doing it for. Money or fun or both? I also wrote about it a few posts ago? $TMO I think I'm going in, by the way. I thought they only do diagnostics but they mainly do CDMO and CRO and I'm bullish on that.
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@topicswithhead Apart from that, what is the strategy you are following? You have a lot of things in your portfolio that I can imagine why you have them but that somehow don't fit in with the others
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@topicswithhead Hehe, I caught you reading my posts too rarely. I once explained why I practice stock picking in the even quite popular essay "Why my strategy doesn't work - and I still don't change it", you can find the post here: "https://getqu.in/gN94sV/"

Why did you think I was approaching 40? Because of the Gandolfini profile picture? I hope it's not because of my boomeresque posts haha. I still have some time left until then and I also have specific financial goals that I want to achieve by then. And of course I also want to make progress in terms of family planning by then :-) I'm from the 90s, so I'm still a lot older than you.

Thermo Fisher is definitely quite exciting and well positioned. Only diagnostics like Sartorius wouldn't do me any good either.

By the way, I find the feedback very interesting. Would you like to give a few examples of what you mean? Well, the only stock I can think of that actually has nothing at all to do with the others is L'Oreal, but otherwise I already have a common thread.
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@Soprano Sometimes you can forget things, but it could also be because I haven't read it. Sometimes there is too much spam on the ForYou site, so you can miss something. But I didn't think the post was completely categorized correctly. I mean, yes, you have to compare fairly (e.g. bonds ≠ stocks), but there is still something like TR to compare with the index. I also wrote: fun and experience are an important factor, but you shouldn't be too far removed from the market. Maybe an ETF core is good for you. I also rely on 30-50% ETFs or holdings in my portfolio so as not to stray too far. I also made the comparison in my post a week ago, as I think I mentioned earlier.
Back to the actual topic: I meant in the sense of capital-efficient investments or return ratios. The fact that you're focusing on gaming and so on makes sense, but it doesn't seem like there's a solid foundation underneath. For example, tech is your theme, but there should be a maximum of 3 times net debt/EBITDA and 10% ROIC and so on. Doesn't look like that's your approach at the moment. But I'll have another look and benchmark your portfolio, maybe there's something fundamentally the same behind all of them.
Soprano is a bit older, isn't he? Therefore estimated at around 40. It would be like having Friends in your profile picture.
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@Soprano so I looked at everything except the gdrs. All have grown, the only exception none have broken. All grew.
Operating margin over 10%. UnitedHealth with 8 %, Take-Two negative, Medios 2 %, Daikin 8 %.
Net margin above 10 %. Vertex negative and UNH below 10 %, Jenoptik 8 %, Take-Two negative, Daikin 5 %, 11 bit 1 %, Medios 0.2 %.
Cash flow positive at operating level. Vertex negative, Take-Two negative.
Low net debt/EBITDA below 1. Deere stands out with 6, UNH with 1.4 TMO with 2.6, Take-Two with 6, Stryker with 2, Linde with 1.2, Jenoptik with 1.4, Medios 2.
ROIC around 10 %. Deere down, BlackRock down, TMO down, ServiceNow down, Take-Two negative, Jenoptik down, PayPal down, Linde down, Medios down, Daikin down, 11 bit down.
ROCE above 10 %. TMO below, BlackRock below, Take-Two below, Medios below.
ROE above 10 %. Vertex below, Take-Two below, 11 bit below.
Values that stand out more than 3.5 times. Take two and medios deviate completely from the portfolio, dakin actually also but dropped out when rounding up
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@topicswithhead Wow, what tool did you use for this? I assume that you subscribed to some premium service so that you could do it all relatively automatically and didn't have to enter all the values individually.

So you mean that the companies don't fit into the portfolio based on key figures, not necessarily thematically. In any case, this is interesting feedback, so Take Two, Medios and Daikin should actually be out, shouldn't they?

I'm actually right there with you. So Take Two is perhaps the most interesting. The figures are catastrophic due to a huge takeover, which in my opinion has not yet materialized. However, I didn't invest in the figures here anyway, but in the market psychology. For me, it was almost a no-brainer to invest in order to ride the GTA 6 hype and reach a new ATH.

The key question is whether and when to sell again. The original plan was to sell in the relaunch month and make a secure profit. In the meantime, however, we are already itching to go back into the gamble and wait for the release to see whether the billions in profits predicted by analysts can really be realized. The ATH before the release is a certainty ... the ATH after the release is a bet. I'll certainly make another post on this at some point, maybe I'll work with SL or whatever.

Medios and Daikin have actually been on the hit list for a long time, which is why I never bought them again and only have a <1% weighting. I actually want to get rid of them - the investment case didn't work out at all. But then I often tend to hold on to sideways stocks forever in order to get what I consider to be a "fair exit". The thing is, I usually can't do much with the sums because I have good liquidity and I can't currently use the losses for tax purposes. It's quite tricky.
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@topicswithhead Otherwise, Vertex, TMO, UNH and Jenoptik are also among the many companies mentioned. But of course it is also interesting that Deere stands out with its enormous debt. However, it is important to note that this is not because the company itself needs a lot of outside capital, but because they finance machinery for farmers. They are therefore also a bank, which is why they have such a low equity ratio.

At the moment, I definitely see TMO and Vertex as core positions that I want to expand further. UNH as well, unless there are really big things to come. Otherwise, UNH is really only relatively close to the target values.

Jenoptik would also be something for the skeptics list. For me, this is really more of a lover's stock than a really sensible decision. In the meantime, it's getting into my thick head that I should probably have divested. But at the moment it is once again too cheap. Not a good company at a fair price, but an okay company at a great price. Exactly how you shouldn't do it, according to Buffet.

PS. The Sopranos is a good 5 years younger than Friends. Although the humor of Friends has aged badly, whereas those old gangster shows never really go out of style. Funnily enough, I only discovered Sopranos in 2018. As far as sitcoms are concerned, I'd rather be the Scrubs and Malcolm Mittendrin generation.
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@Soprano If you were to ask me now, regardless of the metrics, I would just swap out a few stocks. I mean, you're a tech high growth investor with a penchant for gaming. In my opinion, I would throw out the corpse Medios and take the loss. Losses can be carried forward for several years, and at least you can use the money more wisely.

I would take L'Oréal out because it somehow doesn't fit into the overall picture. But I have to admit that I hate the French withholding tax, the stock itself is not bad. Daikin is not a super bad stock and at least has a trend behind it, so you can just hold it.

Take-Two is just one of those things. I would also hold on to it, the values will turn brutally again after GTA 6, assuming it's not a flop. But the stock itself is actually pretty bad. Tough mismanagement if you can't at least maintain stability between blockbusters.

Apart from that, there are only one or two stocks where I think "well", but these are more personal opinions, there are enough of them in my portfolio.

I would possibly diversify more and not necessarily by selling, unless you actively want to, but rather by buying. Personally, I wouldn't hold a position of more than 5% unless it has grown organically. But to be honest, I would like to have your portfolio. I'm always too cautious to go fully into tech. I should have done it once, I always got out too early.

About the tool: Finchat.io is free, and I used the charting function. I simply selected all ten values manually, looked at them and then switched until I was through. It's a cool tool - and if you really want to make the most of it, it's not that expensive. I think it only costs a tenner a month. That's actually too much for me (I'm a cheapskate), but it would definitely be worth it. It can do quite a lot, you can create an account for free. I play around for a few minutes almost every day and compare shares. I'm actually thinking about buying it, because the free version can do a lot, but the premium version offers a lot more options
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@topicswithhead Cool tool, I've heard the name before but I'll have to take a closer look. 20 a month is definitely a pain threshold where you have to think about whether it would be better spent in a savings plan. But compared to some other services, it's almost affordable. Maybe I think it's so great that you can share the price of an account *cough* hehe

To the actual topic:

* Medios AG will be kicked out, the only question is when.
* I'm still not sure whether Daikin is worth it. It may not be insanely bad, but I still don't see the hoped-for air conditioning boom in India.
* Take Two has actually had pretty good management so far and would very well have remained stable if they had spared themselves the Zynga takeover. The success with mobile games has not yet shown itself at all and has led to billions in write-downs. But on the other hand, I don't understand why they don't look after their franchises better. Besides GTA, they have sooo many IPs in their portfolio that would be pure gold if they could raise their values.

I find it interesting that you would diversify. I actually try to focus more and go from 40 -> 30 stocks. Basically, I wouldn't even know what I could buy. I still have a very full watchlist, but EVERYTHING on it is AGAIN just tech, healthcare or financials. So I don't know if it's so cool if I add 5 more to the 20 tech stocks I already have. Somehow that's just more of the same.
Oh and funnily enough, it was L'Oreal that convinced me for once with a stock that doesn't come from the same 3 sectors and really contributes to diversification and I now have THE stock that doesn't really fit into the portfolio at all :D

But very nice that you like my portfolio. That flatters me hehe. But I don't think I'm that much braver than you. For example, I've had SoFi on my WL for years and haven't dared to do it yet. And I also hold quite a lot of cash.
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@Soprano By diversify, I mean move the stocks higher and not the mass. You have positions that make up almost 10% of your portfolio. Maybe you'll find a few more interesting stocks or move the others a little higher. I think there are always a few interesting investment opportunities.
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@topicswithhead So you only mean the weighting, i.e. quais rebalancing. Yes then of course logically by buying not by selling I don't want to sell good stocks.

Thought you meant I should buy more different shares, because that's really not so easy for me.

The weighting has already changed quite a bit. Amazon at only 10% is almost conservative for me, it used to be well over 20%. At a good price, I would also give Amazon and Microsoft an unlimited weighting.

For the other stocks, 3-4% is a high conviction position for me. In other words, a stock in which I have full confidence. A normal weighting is around 2%. And where I am still skeptical, 1%

Ideally, I would have 30 stocks that all really convince me and then each of them would be at 3%, which would bring me pretty much to 100%. But as long as I don't find enough stocks where I'm completely enthusiastic, I have to fill in the missing % with Amazon, Microsoft, Nvidia, you know what I mean?

At the moment I'm building up Synopsis, ServiceNow, Berkshire and Autodesk towards 3%.
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All the oil mulites were cheap.
The $EXH1 EuroStoxx Oil & Gas had a maximum drawdown of -66%
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@TotallyLost Completely correct correction. I had completely forgotten about it somehow, but this is actually the area where it was worthwhile.
Stock picking in a crash is simply playing the lottery and has little to do with a long-term investment....

ETFs are the safer option. Because there are enough crashes that cannot be recovered locally for years.
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@Madhatter5566 Is this simply a gross aversion to stock picking or is there a specific statement in it?

So do you see a concrete difference for stock picking in a bull market vs. a bear market?
@Soprano In general, but more so in a crash. ETFs or indexes have a positive expected return. Equities only to a limited extent. Directional bets that are time-dependent. At some point, 95% of all shares lose out to newer ones.
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@Madhatter5566 Well, but what is an index other than an arbitrary composition of shares? Why should the composition determined by Dow & Jones be better than that of uhh Dirk Müller?
@Soprano Experience values. Statistics. Nen World has a positive expected return, Dirk Müller has no idea. That also depends on the mechanisms of the World.
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@Madhatter5566 But what do you mean by that? All non-inflationary assets have a statistically positive expected return. Equities, gold, real estate, bonds ... this is not exclusive to the MSCI World.
@Soprano In my opinion, this statement is precisely wrong. Shares do not have a positive expected return, indexes do. Indexes throw out loser stocks and take in winner stocks. With the method, there is the expectation of making a statistically verifiable profit with an index. Across thousands of shares, with companies that come in and losers that go out. Stocks on the other hand=? I don't know that anyone leans so far out that any stock has any expectation. Companies tend to go bust at some point or not do so well.
If you look at it historically, 95% of the top stocks lose their status over time. At least that's how I know it.... Nasdaq.... If you had bought and held all the top stocks 30 years ago, 95% of them would now be lousy, while the index has grown happily.

Same thing in a crash: The companies in an ETF World before the crash are not the same stocks after a crash that allow the ETF World to "recover". At least not necessarily.
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@Madhatter5566 You can put it even more drastically. If I had bought the Dow Jones 150 years ago ... I don't even think there are any more shares in it today, apart from General Electric. But not necessarily because they all went bankrupt.

Most companies were simply taken over or merged at some point over the decades. Instead of US Rubber, you would have Michelin . Instead of US Tabacco, you would have British American Tabacco. Instead of Cotton Oil, you would have had Unilever.

So although there is nothing left of the shares from the original DJI, you would have automatically received new shares. But actually, no company has simply disappeared without a trace and dematerialized.

That would be an exciting topic for a doctoral thesis or for a quantum computer to work out whether it would have been better to buy the "current DJI" over 100 years or to hold the companies for decades and see which successor shares you get after the takeover.
@Soprano If a company goes bankrupt, you don't get just any other company. Instead, you lose your share of the company or it is worth nothing. Has nobody told you that yet?

And I wanted to show you the obvious difference between index and single-stock picking. But probably too high.... Too bad.
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@Madhatter5566 But none of them went bankrupt. You are overestimating how many listed companies supposedly go bust. Many companies do disappear from the stock exchange every year, but NOT because they are insolvent and unable to pay and are then wound up, that is an absolute rarity and exception.
@Soprano But they disappear into oblivion... Again. The top 100 30 years ago are now only 5 or 7 companies in the top 100. Indexes have expected returns in the future. Equities do not.

Stock picking for the long term means accumulating losers. But ok. How do I explain this to someone who thinks that if a company goes bankrupt you get shares in another company...
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The entry point for Amazon and Microsoft may not have been optimal because they benefited from coronavirus. And with Berkshire Hathaway: it doesn't matter when you get in, more or less you always buy them at the respective high price if you look at the entry point 20 years later. and the entry point is relatively irrelevant, the only important thing is to be in for as long as possible!
For all other shares and indices: there has been a significant coronavirus dent. That was basically the best time to enter the market in the last 15 years, wasn't it? In this respect, I don't quite understand the whole thing. You have to have bought stocks very selectively to have a problem with the timing of your entry.
But it's precisely the shares that have been stable through corona that will continue to do so in the future. In 15 years or 20 years: Corona won't matter at all in the chart of these stocks.
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