2Mon·

This country is a disaster and should be banned !!!1Itself

Okay, today I’m going to do a little “shitposting” (or as a German would say: posting crap).


But you really have to realize just how bad things actually are for the German stock market. I now truly consider it my biggest rookie mistake as an individual stock investor that I ever bought into this nonsense about “global diversification” and “spreading your investments widely.”


There are simply countries that, on average, are uninvestable—and unfortunately, in addition to various emerging markets, this increasingly includes some European nations as well.


And this is actually a structural issue. Topics like “small caps” and “hidden champions” can basically be flushed down the toilet at this point, because policymakers are… let’s just say… creating suboptimal economic conditions in Europe.


What we’re seeing here isn’t solely due to poor stock picking, but is also indicative of just how badly the German stock market as a whole is faring. Take a look at the index ETF $DEAM (+0.37%) and see that the MDAX (which, after all, still forms the backbone of the German economy) has shown absolutely no return over the past five years.


Does anyone else remember how, a few years ago, people kept saying that while Germany might not have any great global IT corporations, the German SME sector—with its technology leaders and highly specialized niche providers—would pull everything through? What’s left of that? Not a chance! Whether $RAA (-1.03%) or $NEM (+5.84%) or $AFX (+5.88%) or $SRT (-1.35%) or $BC8 (-0.06%) —many of Germany’s rising stars, especially in future-oriented markets, have failed—all at the same time. Let’s not even get started on BioNTech this time.


Meanwhile, the DAX is increasingly becoming a “retirees’ club” of companies, some of which are 100 to 150 years old and are filling the index with their spin-offs. For example, $FRE Fresenius is represented twice, $MBG (+0.84%) Mercedes is represented twice, and $SIE (-0.32%) Siemens is even represented four times. These three companies alone already occupy eight spots on the DAX, while success stories of a company rising from an SME to a major corporation—as in the case of Qiagen—are almost nonexistent anymore. And even with Qiagen, we’ll have to wait and see whether the company can hold its own in the “top league” in the long run.


To be honest, the fact that the DAX is still doing relatively well at all is due solely to the success of a few companies and their economies of scale, which allow them to engage in lobbying at both the federal and European levels. However, the weaker Germany becomes, the less likely it will be in the long run for finance ministers to use their leeway to benefit large corporations or for foreign ministers to advocate for international trade agreements.


Unfortunately, things don’t look much better in the rest of Europe either. Here, however, the economy doesn’t have as much room to fall in the first place. Many European countries have never defined themselves as “economic nations” anyway, but rather see themselves as cultural nations. But even here, one can take a look at what has become of the jewels of the European stock markets. Europe’s top 10 is now dominated by British and Swiss companies, while the heavyweights from Germany and France continue to lose ground. Yes, Siemens is holding its own, but Germany’s flagship industry used to be automotive manufacturing. And the only 5-star company in the EU is ASML.


I’ve now written much more than I intended for a lighthearted post, and I’m not even sure anymore what point I was trying to make.

I don’t know—just don’t buy so many dubious individual stocks from shady countries just because you want to diversify. Buy only the best stocks, and if you can’t think of any others, just put the rest into the S&P 500.

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24 Comments

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Things are definitely not going so well in Germany at the moment. I know a few people who are back on short-time work, mainly friends who work in industrial companies. A crisis-proof job is worth its weight in gold these days.

I've also sold my European and emerging markets ETFs because I personally think that you mess up your returns with too much diversification and different positions, even if many YouTube influencers preach otherwise.

I would also just like to randomly comment on how cool I think it is to discuss the capital market and stock market topics here. I can't talk to anyone else about it because no one in my circle of friends and acquaintances is even remotely interested.

Thank you very much, guys! 🫡
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@ZPark91 You are not alone 🫂
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@ZPark91 It's the same for me😒
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At least you guys appears on the chart… ✌🏼😭 my country’s situation is even worse…
If you think Germany economic situation is bad, try to survive Italy… we are literally in a never ending economic crisis since 2008. A lot of industries close everyday and delocalize. we are the only country in Europe with less purchase power than 20 years ago (even Greece did better than us).
Unemployment is extremely high, even if you have a job your salary is 2 times less than what you make in Germany but the cost of leaving is higher than Germany itself.
This situation caused a massive birth collapse and that’s why my country will disappear before 2100.
It’s impossible living here, I will not be surprised if Italy will collapse like Greece in the next 10 years.
I hate living here and I hate being italian.
To summarize: Germany situation is not as bad as you think it is.
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@TheMaverick Interesting to hear an Italian perspective. Because Italy is one of those "culture nations" that historically didn't care about their economy that much anyway.

I always thought Italians are a lot more happy with life even though they suffer from the same issues that Germany has now since the 90s already.

A thing you might find interesting/comforting is this comparison: https://www.bpb.de/kurz-knapp/zahlen-und-fakten/sozialbericht-2024/553236/vermoegen-im-europaeischen-vergleich/

A key takeaway as seen in the first chart is that Italians are among the most wealthiest Europeans still. Sure the income in Italy is bad and continues to be bad but the median Italian person still has a lot of assets and equity: 159 Tsd. Euros compared to only 107 Tsd. Euros in Germany. That's almost +50%

The main reason for that is that Italians usually have a place to live in like a house or apartment in their own or their families name. Almost 80% of Italians have their own home. In Germany only 40% have their own home while most people are entirely dependent to rent someone else's property for housing.
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If necessary, the MSCI World can also be used as a backup. But the worst portfolio is this 75/25 thing with the EM IMI, just because you're afraid of making the wrong decision or because you tell yourself that India is bound to clean up the Ganges and introduce traffic rules at some point.
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@Soprano blindly adding emerging markets to your portfolio is really not a good idea. I prefer the MSCI Developed World Index to anything else.
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@Soprano In general, an ETF strategy that you follow is either always based on the fear of being wrong, or dealing with individual stocks is too time-consuming, or you simply don't want to deal with stocks yourself.
That is perfectly ok. You just shouldn't complain that you always buy a lot of crap that underperforms.
However, what you say is only partially true with regard to small and mid-caps in Germany. There have been various high-flyers in the last 12-18 months that could have been picked.
$AIXA $HOT , $LPK, to name just 3.
Of course, this requires a higher willingness to take risks and also more time. But these opportunities exist both in Germany and in Europe.
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@Multibagger Well, I'm not saying that you can't make money with German shares and that there are no second-line stocks for a trading portfolio. Infineon shareholders are also happy at the moment. But you also have to distinguish whether the companies are in a better position than a few years ago or whether there has simply been a multiple expansion.

LPKF's turnover in 2025 was almost the same as in 2011, and probably even lower when adjusted for inflation.
Hochtief still had a profit margin of 2% - here, too, the P/E ratio was simply beaten up from 15 to 45. Aixtron also has a P/E ratio of 70, Infineon over 100

None of the companies have really earned the money they want to earn yet, these are advance praise.

And in contrast to US companies that are valued at a P/E ratio of 10 to 20, German companies rarely manage to meet these market expectations or maintain their phased growth over several years.
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@Soprano I'm with you there
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@Soprano So I love my $EIMI. So far it has performed better than my S&P500 and I see a lot of potential here in the future.
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@Da_Fischi It had a good year before that, but also underperformed for 10 years.
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@Soprano *2 good years - but if you look at the historical development between Developed and EM, it may well be that the trend has switched back to EM 🔮
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If you want to "shitpost", you have to think about whether you're serious or not. 😘
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@SchlaubiSchlumpf I sometimes find it difficult to satirize reality. A lot of things are simply too true to be beautiful these days.
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Munich Re and Allianz were doing well until recently. They are not the smallest in the world (let's take Mag7 out of the equation)
Nordex also did well.
It's not just the really big ones that generate returns.
At the moment, however, I'm at a bit of a loss, as every tweet from Trump and the political back-and-forth in Germany is causing everything to go haywire.
And I can't really see my way through the semiconductor scene. Infinion just went great. Aixtron too. But also moderate compared to SanDisk (YoY 50 to over 1,500 USD 😳).
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Germany has reached its high, will continue to move sideways without growth. Value with dividends, possibly falling slightly without growth.
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I think your poor performance in Germany is due to your stock picking.

Try putting a stop-loss in your portfolio, because there were plenty of times when you could sell $AFX -10%, -20% or -30% before it went to -60%. But it did nothing.

A simple DAX ETF $EXS1 would have made your German exposure look completely different.

Germany is not un-investable. The whole of Europe is.
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@TechNav Well, I certainly could/must have limited the loss. But it's not bad stock picking. I bought companies with good technology, healthy balance sheets, solid valuations and undistruptable moats.

When investing in individual stocks, you are actually primarily looking at company-specific risks, such as the competition simply becoming too strong, rather than structural things like tariff wars, export restrictions, etc: Customs wars, export restrictions, electricity price explosions and skills shortages that bring the company to its knees.

As I said, it affects the entire MDAX. I could have chosen almost any company there and would have been hit more or less hard depending on when I entered.

As I said about the DAX: fundamentally, things are not going well here either. There are individual companies with a good order situation, a few with good relations to Berlin and Brussels. But here, too, the champagne corks are no longer popping.
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I only hold Munich Re.
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Buy the right ones, Airbus, dws Group, Allianz for example 😂
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Deleted User
2Mon
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@Brateeee They earn their money abroad but also to a large extent in other EU countries. And that is reasonably easy because Germany pays the entire EU almost single-handedly and therefore controls all the authorities. In markets such as China and the USA, things are much worse for many German companies and the EU has to keep giving in to the Americans and Chinese in order to maintain trade. When we export cars to China, we pay more net for them than we receive. Simply so that we can maintain employment at all.

Many DAX companies still produce in Germany and are asset-heavy. And that is a disadvantage because, for example, it is simply bad to have the most expensive electricity price in Europe. We have few business models in the DAX that have both global sales and are location-independent.

VW cannot leave Germany completely because the local workforce in Brazil and Bulgaria cannot manage to produce to brand standards. And VW cannot stay in Germany because union wages and energy prices make the business model unprofitable. A real dilemma.
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