KroateOhneHaare

@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon·

Insurance shares?

$MUV2 (-1.81%) - $SREN (-1.49%) - $HNR1 (-1.66%) - $BRO (-1.15%)

I am currently in my final year of training as an insurance and financial investment specialist, but I work as an independent insurance broker.

In this respect, it is "natural" for me to deal intensively with listed insurance companies.

Today I bought shares in Munich Reinsurance Company (Munich Re) for the first time. $MUV2 (-1.81%) for the first time.

I also bought Swiss Re $SREN (-1.49%) and Hannover Re $HNR1 (-1.66%) on my watch list.

A functioning primary insurance market would be inconceivable without reinsurance.

I am also keeping an eye on the Allianz share $ALV (-2.01%) - I would see a price level below € 300 as an interesting entry opportunity.

Brown & Brown, $BRO (-1.15%) a company also active in the insurance business, is potentially attractive for me from a price below USD 88-90.

What are your opinions on insurance in your portfolio and/or in everyday life, apart from the typical weird sales representatives who only want to sell insurance etc.?

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61 Comments

DividendenAlpaka@DividendenAlpaka

4Mon

Insurers belong in every portfolio. I myself have been invested in $SREN & $ZURN for years and, in addition to considerable share price growth, have also benefited from very attractive dividends. With $BALN, $HELN & $SLHN, Switzerland offers further interesting stocks. But Germany also has nothing to hide with $ALV, $HNR1 & $MUV2.
Also interesting: $CS, $G, $BRO, $AJG, $CB, $601318 or $MMC.
As you can see, I can't stop raving about them 😆

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@DividendenAlpaka Sounds outstanding.
I'm also massively enthusiastic about the insurance industry, especially when it comes to quality.

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Jim@wealth_navigator_64

4Mon

$HELN Swiss insurer also a mega chart and company

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@wealth_navigator_64 Chart looks quite solid, that's true.
However, in my opinion you have to be careful here, as it will soon be merging with Baloise Sachversicherung Deutschland.

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KonradM@KonradM

4Mon

@KroateOhneHaare I think it still has to be approved by the Swiss authorities first, right? As far as I know, the merger is planned for Q4/2025.

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@KonradM I must have read that too, yes 👍
Baloise only gave its approval at the end of May.

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@KonradM In my opinion, the figures for the companies see LMMD don't look that great. However, I would first have to deal with the companies in order to be able to make an objective comment here.

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Risk_Taker_Tomato@risk_taker

4Mon

Hi, maybe take another look at $SLHN Swisslife, also a good chart and quite stable turnover in my opinion. It's on my watchlist, but I think one insured share is enough in the portfolio if you haven't diversified that much yet

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Risk_Taker_Tomato@risk_taker

4Mon

@risk_taker_1816 PS. I hope you can still change your mind, as I also see Swiss Re as a good value and am struggling to decide whether to put a savings plan on it or not

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@risk_taker_1816 Swiss Life is also a great company that has been performing outstandingly well for years.
However, I am considering taking either Swiss RE, i.e. Swiss Reinsurance, or Swiss Life, both of which are great stocks with attractive dividends.

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Risk_Taker_Tomato@risk_taker

4Mon

@KroateOhneHaare Both are great, but since Municj Re is already in the portfolio, opinions differ as to whether you should really include another insurer or not. But the 3 big Swiss insurers Swiss Re, Swiss Life and Zurich insurance are great stocks and companies with great dividends. But unfortunately you can't have them all

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@risk_taker_1816 Of course that's true.
You're absolutely right.
However, for me personally, I would always like to have 2-3 shares in an industry, not always, but here in the insurance industry I would very much like to.

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Risk_Taker_Tomato@risk_taker

4Mon

@KroateOhneHaare then the combination of Munich re, Swiss re, and maybe Allianz or swisslife or Zurich insurance would be something for you, as you have two reinsurers and an everyday insurer

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@risk_taker_1816 Exactly, that's how I wanted to handle it.
Exactly, you got to the point perfectly haha.😂
That's how it looks 😉👍

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Risk_Taker_Tomato@risk_taker

4Mon

@KroateOhneHaare vllt häng ich mich da hinten dran, die 1,2 Munich re habe ich schon fehlt nur die nächste 💪🏻

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@risk_taker_1816 Keep going! 🫡

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Risk_Taker_Tomato@risk_taker

4Mon

@KroateOhneHaare then good luck 👍

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Enrique@Dividenden_Monteur

4Mon

$MUV2 because Ergo still has a small foothold in the insurance business there.

If you are looking for cash flow, take a look at $AFG. There, purchases below <€120 are an option, and at higher prices they usually return a lot to shareholders in the form of special dividends.

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@Dividenden_Monteur That's right, Ergo Versicherung AG is part of Munich Re, even as a small player despite the large ergo market. 👍
With AFG you have to watch the next price reactions of the resistances here, then the area around €90-95 could become very attractiveY

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@Dividenden_Monteur Only here I see the problem with the dividends, which have been fluctuating back and forth for years and this significantly, especially in 2020/21.

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Enrique@Dividenden_Monteur

4Mon

@KroateOhneHaare are special dividends, as written above :)
There are 4 fixed ones, the rest is on top.

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@Dividenden_Monteur This is what it looks like 👍😉

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Philip Buß@GoldenShield

4Mon

I don't think you should have shares in the industry if you work in the industry yourself, except for employee shares
If the industry is doing badly, you'll be hit twice (your job may be at risk and the shares will do badly)

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@GoldenShield A good point in itself!
However, the world doesn't work without insurance, especially not without reinsurance.
Reinsurers have again spent billions of euros on the forest fires, and losses were also made in Corona, but everything has recovered.
In addition, as insurance brokers, we take service fees from our customers, so we don't live on commissions, which means we don't care about market fluctuations in the insurance industry.

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Soprano@Soprano

4Mon

@GoldenShield But then you can't own German shares, for example, if you have a property in Germany. Because if things go badly for us as a country, not only will the DAX fall, but also the value of your home, and you might even be made redundant.

So in itself, the idea is not entirely wrong and is also understandable. But regional problems are just as likely as problems in an industry. However, the risk may be offset by the knowledge advantage.

Users like @Dividenden_Monteur, for example, know the industry inside out. So why shouldn't he also invest in industrial stocks?

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Philip Buß@GoldenShield

4Mon

@Soprano I understand your point, but what do you care about the value of your property if you live in it yourself? Besides, the German economy is so diversified. A large part of the turnover of DAX companies is not generated in Germany or how can you explain the DAX's constant new ATHs even though the economy here has been stagnating for 2-3 years

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4Mon

@Soprano I think Peter Lynch once described it in a similar way to you 👍.
Knowledge advantage through own experience and work. A specialist in oil production should not invest in pharmaceutical stocks, where he will probably never understand the business, and vice versa.
Of course, you can't finally spin it, otherwise some people wouldn't be able to invest anywhere 😅 but the idea is basically sound.

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@MarSido I'm completely with you!

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Soprano@Soprano

4Mon

@MarSido At best, you're an expert in a subject you don't work in. For example, I work for the state, but I'm the specialist for gaming stocks here :D

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4Mon

@Soprano I hope you think of us all when you identify the next high-flying stock in the gaming sector 😄

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Enrique@Dividenden_Monteur

4Mon

@GoldenShield because the German economy is hardly stagnating in real terms.
What is stagnating are our car manufacturers and all the rattles behind them, resulting in growth of just 0.4%, yet Germany accounts for ¼ of the GDP of the entire EU

SMEs are booming and mechanical engineering companies in particular have their books full to bursting...

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Soprano@Soprano

4Mon

@MarSido $CDR and $TTWO were easy. At the moment, I'm still pinning my hopes on $11B and $PDX, which haven't really caught on yet.

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4Mon

@Dividenden_Monteur However, various economists would disagree with you on the last sentence, as full books are not an indicator of a booming industry. You can have as full a book as you like if you are in doubt about the materials, energy or skilled workers you need to process the orders.
Then you can end up going under even with the highest demand.

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View all 7 further answers

Seventrader@7Trader

4Mon

I am a fan of Apollo Global Management $APO (which also has insurance companies in its portfolio, including Athene and Aspen)

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@7Trader The company's figures are quite solid. Growth of the share price around 2016-2017, but the dividend growth of the last 10 years is not the yellow of the egg, but to each his own. The figures are still solid in terms of sales, profit and free cash flow.

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Maximilian@Max095

4Mon

$SLHN I still have in the depot

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@Max095 Very nice share.
I'm wavering here between Swiss RE, i.e. Swiss Reinsurance, and Swiss Life as an insurer.
But both are great companies with top positions and attractive dividends.

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Maximilian@Max095

4Mon

@KroateOhneHaare That's right. The mix of share price growth and dividends is already excellent.

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

4Mon

Since I tend to bet on growth stocks and most of the insurance stocks listed above are likely to face headwinds if interest rates fall and have already performed very well, you can take a look at the following companies with a lot of potential. $LMND , $OSCR, $ROOT. Of course, it also depends on your investment strategy. But $LMND could soon end up in my portfolio, $OSCR I would have to buy in the US as it is not yet listed in Europe as far as I know. Exciting companies if you want to broaden your horizons a little, which could also revolutionize the insurance industry. ✌️

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PatitosFortune@dividend_master_pf

4Mon

So many interesting options to 🦆 research based on the post and comments!
For now I have small positions with $CINF and $WRB and also have $ALV in my watchlist :D

I don’t work in the insurance industry but would have been the “natural” path since I did major in actuarial sciences haha but I do have friends in the field so not completely unfamiliar to it.

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@dividend_master_pf Very Interesting cool!
Yeah the industry branche is also very very Interesting since years.

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4Mon

Here is a share from China $2318

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@Novius I already looked at it weeks ago. I think it's a completely digitalized insurance company.
So in terms of figures, the company also looks solid here.

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@Novius However, a sideways phase has been underway here since 06/22, so either the next breakout will be to the downside or to the upside, provided the all-time high at that time is not breached.

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4Mon

@KroateOhneHaare I am speculating on the latter 😉 However, I am only invested with a small position so far

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@Novius In my opinion, even a small position is enough, especially with China shares, and in any case a share for the watch list if it could slip a little.

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Compounder@FirstCompounder

4Mon

My favorite next to $BRK.B is $FFH

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

4Mon

@FirstCompounder Why do you see these as your personal favorites?

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Compounder@FirstCompounder

3Mon

@FirstCompounder consistent leveraging of loss reserves (float) in participations. In this way, returns are achieved from two business models at the same time. Berkshire is well known for this. $FFH is run by Prem Watsa (also founded) and he plays the game at least as well. Fairfax is globally diversified with insurance (including the Middle East and India) and, alongside $PGR, is the fastest growing insurance company among the world's top 20. $MKL would be another candidate for this game.

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Compounder@FirstCompounder

3Mon

@KroateOhneHaare

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KroateOhneHaare@KroateOhneHaare

3Mon

@FirstCompounder Jo, thanks for the mention my dear!
Definitely sounds very interesting and appealing. Reason to put it on the watchlist! Thank you 😉👍

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4Mon

I would like to buy current $BRO what do you both think. Unfortunately, I don't have an insurance sector yet. I would also like to hear other suggestions. I would really appreciate your help. @DividendenAlpaka @KroateOhneHaare

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4Mon

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