3D·

New retirement savings account

It's great to see what's happening with the retirement savings scheme. Finally something that really feels like progress and not like the umpteenth half-hearted solution from politicians, even if it comes 10 years too late.


Compared to a normal custody account or simply leaving money in an account, the custody account makes a difference.


In short: This is a state-subsidized custody account in which you invest money (gross), even as a self-employed person, and receive tax benefits in return, which means that you end up with more left over for yourself by investing pre-tax (gross) and receiving a state subsidy!


Subsidies:

- For deposits of up to 360 euros per year, the state subsidy is 50 cents for every euro deposited, i.e. a maximum of 180 euros per year.

- For deposits between €360 and €1,800 per year, the state subsidy is 25 cents for every euro paid in, i.e. a maximum of a further €360 per year.

+Subsidies/supplements for children


Especially if you think about simply putting in €150 a month (maximum subsidy) or filling up the €1,800 once a year (directly in January), you'll add up to a brutal amount over the years.

You have to be honest: you haven't seen anything like this from politicians for a long time.

But as always, in the end it's the costs that decide whether it's really worth it.


Example result for JG 2003, and 180EUR per month. You can also play around with Scalalbe: https://de.scalable.capital/en/retirement-account?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQPNTY3MDY3MzQzMzUyNDI3AAGnvCANxIg1t8QwbSAfc9Yo0wIDheuewP6nJMOHlivlPOflIBUGUutfGIRrZe4_aem_lrZx8swAdYWSSoJXin_agg

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If the framework conditions remain the same, I would take the maximum subsidy, and I assume that the neobrokers will charge very good fees on the market.

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70 Comentários

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Without wanting to badmouth it directly, but just a few key points to bear in mind.

- at the beginning, up to a maximum of 30% can be paid out as a lump sum
- the rest is paid out via a payment plan from the age of 85


I prefer to stick with my own private retirement savings account.
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@Aktienorang-Utan The pension is paid out until the age of 85, in monthly installments from retirement. The problem is, of course, that you are tied and have no large payments.
@Aktienfox Who can guarantee that you won't die at 70? Then you won't get your money
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@Divident_e You can also apply this to the entire pension system or insurance companies. But: For those who don't invest yet and don't have any contact points, it can be good if the fees don't escalate
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@Divident_e The remaining amount is inherited. Precisely because it is not insurance.
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@randomdude With Riester, you didn't get anything in the event of death. Has that changed now? I dissolved it a quarter of a year ago and read up on it again. About inheritance...
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@Aktienfox Statutory pension provision is not voluntary. At least not as an employee. But Riester, for example, is. That's what's missing from my net income. That's the difference. I want to be able to access it freely. I don't want to be 85 to get everything out or 80 to at least have my deposits siphoned off. That is and remains scam. Unfortunately, at 20 you're not so bright to recognize that...
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@Daniel1212 why are you judging me now, at the end, that relativizes the complete validity of your statement!

I don't agree with you at all about the pension! The deposit should be for the general population, and I would find it extremely questionable if every person could access this sum X at any time, as the majority of the population is underdeveloped when it comes to finances. The withdrawal rates could be made a mende more flexible and otherwise I think it's fine, you get the subsidy and CO, if you want flexibility then nobody forces you to get it.
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@Aktienfox I didn't mean to judge you. I meant me at 20, when I took out Riester. Today, at 40, I would never have done that. And I've now reversed it too.
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I no longer trust the state one inch. And accordingly, I don't entrust it with any more money than is absolutely necessary
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@Daniel1212 I see, all good! Yes, I see it similarly to you, would try to entrust the state with as little as possible, but in terms of promotion + stock protection, ws is already much better than any other program. I would wait until the beginning of 2027 to see what happens by then
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Then theoretically I should also be able to exchange my Riester contract for a $TDIV, @Get_Rich_or_Die_Tryin?
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@Tenbagger2024 I'm not @Get_Rich_or_Die_Tryin but I just happened to read it.


"Holders of old Riester contracts can also think about switching. Although old contracts are grandfathered, you can also switch to a new model without having to pay back the previous subsidy. However, switching, acquisition and sales costs may be incurred - these are capped by law according to the Ministry of Finance."


Source: Tagesschau
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@Aktienorang-Utan Yes, we'll have to wait and see what's possible. Because I already have a decent amount in the Riester contract, and shifting everything into an ETF might be too much of a cluster risk. Although the Riester contract is an even bigger bulk risk.
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@Tenbagger2024 yes can be transferred and makes perfect sense
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@Tenbagger2024 I'm also curious about the cost of the change. Sounds promising in any case.
@Tenbagger2024 costs should probably be a maximum of 150 euros for the transfer. Possibly even free of charge.

Which funds can be used is not yet fixed. It certainly depends on the provider.

I think once it has finally gone through the Federal Council, the big players and all the others will quickly present their plans.
I hope ING does something sensible, my main portfolio is already there.

I'm also very curious to see whether the big insurers are sensible enough to present "normal" costs. Otherwise they will lose many billions that are now in fixed-interest securities...
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@FirstCompounder but won't start until 2027. don't understand why they want to wait another year now
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@Brody but I don't think that a distributing dividend ETF is allowed. @Get_Rich_or_Die_Tryin do you know any more details?
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@Migu11 If there are to be fixed products here again, then it will end up like Riester again. And the providers will be lining their pockets. I hope you can choose from ETFs here, without hidden costs
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@Tenbagger2024 As the law has only just been passed, the products and the exact guidelines have not yet been finalized. The framework conditions also have to be fixed there again first.

Overall, everything has been kept quite general so far. However, due to the earmarking, I assume that only Acc ETFs will be allowed. Anything else makes no sense at all.
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Doesn't have to be a fixed product, I don't know, fund savers in an insurance wrapper with 1% costs, but free fund switching would possibly be quite interesting :-)
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Not forgetting the additional support for children. But the whole thing stands and falls with the actual fees. And of course you lose flexibility. But certainly not wrong as a supplement
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@DonkeyInvestor but the fees must not exceed 1%.
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@Tenbagger2024 1% is a lot
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@DonkeyInvestor Exactly, as described above it can fail because of the fees. I would also take the 150EUR gross as the maximum amount, and then you lack some flexibility but you get security. Depending on your life situation/plan, it can of course also be pointless. The support of the children also plays a role, but it is individual, so I have left it out, you can look at it in the tool : )
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@Aktienfox What security do I get?
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@DonkeyInvestor Yes, but it can also be significantly lower. You just have to compare the products yourself. Just like with an ETF where the costs vary from product to product. I think Finanz Tip or similar will also compare and evaluate products
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@Tenbagger2024 Yes, of course. Still depends on the offer. Presumably nobody will do it for 0% (and thus only the ETF TER)
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@DonkeyInvestor the subsidy that will probably remain in place, we will see whether it is worth it in the end when all the information is available soon.
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@Aktienfox I see no reason why the subsidy should be taken away again if the contract is fulfilled normally. It is simply subject to the fluctuations of the deposit
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@Aktienfox If you take the retirement savings account in its pure form, you have no protection whatsoever. The allowances will be transferred, but you could gamble them away due to ultra-bad timing or whatever.
@DonkeyInvestor Can the children be included once per household or is the allowance then available for both parents or only half for each parent?
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I think it's really cool too! I'll do it for my wife and myself.
It's great as a supplement for a later pension.

Of course, I have to pay tax on it in the payout phase.
But in the savings phase, the subsidy is much higher. With the child allowances anyway. In addition, it was once envisaged that no tax would be payable in the savings phase either (on profits, dividends, etc.) ....

Yes, it also costs fees, I just hope that the neobrokers will offer it very cheaply. I'm very excited about that.
Then the entire management of the custody account will also be digital.

Alternatively, I have my own custody account for old age. But I currently see no reason not to take the state-subsidized custody account with me...
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@Horstiiii That's exactly how I see it. We are in our late 30s and have two children, that's quite a lot of money coming from the state and enough time to develop. With 150 per parent, you can pay for it well. And this savings installment is deducted from the savings plan we usually have, so it doesn't even increase the monthly burden. We will definitely take up the offer if the general conditions remain as they are at present.
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Everything I've read or heard about it so far has sounded too inflexible and expensive to me. And if you do something unexpected, you lose the benefits. I prefer to do it myself. Even if it's the same in the end, at least I can decide for myself.
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Here is a statement from the BMF on the subject of inheritance:


Can I bequeath the assets from my retirement provision contract?

In principle, the pension assets from a pension contract can be inherited. However, in such a case, the tax incentives (allowances and any amounts determined separately from the deduction of special expenses) must be repaid. In the event of death, however, the pension assets can be transferred without deductions to a pension contract in the name of the surviving spouse.

The following special feature applies to life annuities in the payout phase: A lifelong life annuity cannot be bequeathed; the payments end upon death. This is because the capital saved by pensioners is used collectively for the benefit of pension recipients in order to finance payments for pensioners who live longer. An optional ten- or twenty-year pension guarantee period can be agreed for life annuities: Your pension will then be paid to your surviving dependants should you pass away during the agreed period.
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Well, I don't think it's a "gamechanger" now...
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The fact that the personal tax rate is applied to the payout alone is a deterrent.
You would have to calculate whether you really get more in the end.
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@Banana_Millionaire Yes, that is a factor. But for most of the population it will be worth it, as the tax rate on the pension is of course significantly lower
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@Banana_Millionaire But if you have paid in for a long time, you will then be taxed according to the half-income method, as I read it. So half your personal tax rate.

Source Finanztip:
Unsubsidized contributions: Your marginal tax rate also applies here. However, only half of the income is taxed (half-income method). Prerequisite: Your contract must have run for at least 12 years and you must have paid in for at least 5 years. If you do not meet these conditions, the flat-rate withholding tax applies

https://www.finanztip.de/daily/neues-altersvorsorge-depot-upgrade-bringt-steuervorteile/
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@Banana_Millionaire for most people, the personal tax rate on pensions is lower than the capital gains tax
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Thanks for all the answers. It's all more complicated than I initially assumed.
I'll probably have to take a closer look again.
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We'll have to wait until the first products on the subject are actually on the market. I'm really excited about that
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@GoDividend i am soooo hoping for scalable
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@GoDividend oh i had previously assumed that i could choose an etf myself!
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@Scepp remains exciting.
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My rule: No products that come from the state or with subsidies with dependency.

No certainty that it will not be embezzled or expropriated.
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is there any information about remaining / transferring to wife / children if something happens to me beforehand ?
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I haven't read anywhere about investing input tax (gross) as you write above. Or should it really be possible to transfer it directly from your salary (as an employee) to the AV Depot?
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@_Happy_Life_ No, but the 150 euros per month are tax-free - via the allowance and tax refund.
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Hi and thank you for flagging. This is a different product than the Direktversicherung and Unterstutzungskasse? Where can I read or investigate more about how it works?
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Which brokers offer this then?
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@Koenigmidas we will see, the neobrokers will take it with them, there is already a calculator fromSC and ING has announced it
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It would be good if I could switch the portfolio in my dws Riester-Rente Premium to an ETF with another provider free of charge. So far after almost 20 years below the guarantee balance. 🤦‍♂️
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@Solitair You'll be able to. I'm waiting for it too!
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If you then discount the whole thing with the inflation rate, you won't get that much more. It's more of a small supplement to the pension
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