2Semana·

Special portfolio for son

My son is just graduating from high school and wants to go to university. The difficult question now is how he can invest his reserves (gifts of money, prize money, jobs) sensibly for the next few years.


He knows a little about the stock markets and has already gained some experience with precious metals and crypto. So he knows that the markets can fluctuate considerably.


Saving for retirement interests him just as little as the stock market or money in general. He looks at his portfolio from time to time, but doesn't want to worry about it. First of all, he wants to concentrate on his education and his studies. That's what he needs his savings for in the next few years (apartment, travel, equipment). I currently have his custody account with Zero in my name, but when he turns 18 he'll get it transferred.


His risk profile is somewhat special:

1. he doesn't want equity ETFs because of the medium-term volatility. He wants to be able to use the reserves at any time. If he needs the money in 2-3 years' time, he doesn't want such an ETF to be 50% under water.

2. he is also not interested in bond ETFs, as he does not want to grant loans in the current geopolitical situation. Moreover, the distributions would be peanuts given the size of his portfolio.

3. money market ETFs are more interesting because of the low risk, but only yield minimal interest. It should be a little more.

4. gold and Bitcoin are attractive because they tend to stand for security in uncertain times. BTC is also cool. However, both are also volatile.

5. he wants a maximum of 10% risk, but also the chance of >5% returns over the next few years.


So the profile is: low risk. Short-term availability, but still a return above the overnight interest rate.


My proposed solution, which he has accepted for the time being:

80% $XEON (-0%)

10% $IGLN (-2,39%)

10% $WBIT (+3,15%)


So that's 80% safe liquidity. 10% risk/return with BTC and 10% security with gold (annual rebalancing). The volas of gold and BTC should balance each other out so that the influence on the overall vola of the portfolio is as low as possible. A short backtest since 2018 has shown an annual return of approx. 10% with a max drawdown of approx. 10%. Whether this will work out in the future is of course unknown, but the portfolio has obviously survived the sharp drawdowns of BTC well.


What do you think of this - admittedly unconventional - concept? Does it make sense under the given circumstances? Have I missed something? I would be interested to hear your views.


Your Epi

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46 Comentários

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2Semana
Instead of parking a sum in $XEON, he would be even more flexible with the overnight interest rates (currently 2.5%) at Traderepublic.
The cash could also be used to save in an ETF such as $VWRL, e.g. with €100 per month.
This way, your son can build up a position over the next few years without losing liquidity.
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2Semana
@BigMo Zero does not pay interest.
And, as already mentioned, he doesn't want to invest in equity ETFs because of the medium-term risk. Even with a savings rate of €100 per month, he would have less and less financial leeway over the course of his studies. That is precisely what he wants to avoid.

I know it's special, the usual average concepts don't really work. 🤷
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@Epi I think he should rather use the €100 to enjoy life during his studies and then start with a reasonable sum afterwards. Although you don't get much for €100
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2Semana
@Maddy-0 That's what I mean too. And €100 at that age is a week's camping vacation with friends or a decent farewell party. You shouldn't underestimate that. 👍
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My two cents as a recently graduated student:

Unless you plan on supporting him fat, he will definitely need the money too, especially should he move out.

I think the plan is good, I had a bit more money at 18 (just a bit more, not enormous) and bought a motorcycle very shortly before Corona. Best decision, without it I would have gone crazy during the lockdowns etc., even if it is a money destroying machine for someone without a high income.

I sank the rest into a lot of high-risk assets during my studies, but that was also great, as I now have a lot of experience in areas that bring me a lot more with a steady income (technical charts, etc.) in addition to the scientific work from university.

But if he's not interested in the stock market, he can leave that part out, you're always told "the most important thing is to invest in yourself" but it took me longer to understand that it really is just that.

Bet on interest and treat yourself to things. Studying is stressful enough.
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I would include $XFFE (approx. 20%), if your son wants to travel he needs to maintain his purchasing power measured in dollars.
The dollar may not look so sexy at the moment, but it pays good interest.
With gold and BTC, it is rather questionable whether they can maintain their purchasing power over such a short period of time.
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2Semana
@TotallyLost Good point! I'll discuss it with him. 👍
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I wasn't sure about the gold ETC, but I don't think it was tax-free after a year of holding. It would be better to switch to $WGLD.
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2Semana
@paul_finesse_ Thanks for the tip! You could be right. I'll have to have a look, even if all profits are probably below the exemption limit anyway. That's why I took the cheapest gold ETC for now. It's already been in my portfolio for 2 years.
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@EpiWell, from that point of view, you wouldn't have to pay tax. If the exemption limit is exceeded, you can keep it in mind. 👍
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2Semana
Would reduce the $XEON share a little and rely on discount certificates in stages

PG5A8H
PL3XXH
PL3XXR
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2Semana
@Pezi Thanks for the tip.
However, the parts should also suffer if Nvidia slumps by 50%, right?
Also, they are not tradable at Zero, so not really an option. 🤷
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2Semana
@Epi Yes, they would suffer too. In the case of PL3XXR, for example, they would book the share for him. Losses would only be incurred if the share was sold below approx. 64.50 euros.
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2Semana
@Pezi So the parts would probably be out. Too risky. 🤷
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2Semana
@Epi I don't think it's riskier than gold and Bitcoin...
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2Semana
@Pezi Not that. But you wanted to replace the Xeon part with it. These certificates are definitely riskier than Xeon.
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2Semana
@Epi no, would reduce the Xeon share as written 😉
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2Semana
@Pezi As written, this would unfortunately not be possible in terms of risk.
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In all probability, he will not achieve the 10% return according to the backtest with this construct. I think that's really deliberate. You usually work everything out too precisely for that. In my view, the backtest for Btc is not usable.

Otherwise, why not. In principle, I think it's wise to go full throttle with school and training first. A safety buffer can be worth more than the return on an investment.

80% $XEON
20% 3xGTAA
(No, I'm not being completely serious. You shouldn't do this to someone who is already unfamiliar with the stock market)
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2Semana
@SchlaubiSchlumpf Thank you!
The main purpose of the backtest is to determine the risk of 10% BTC on the portfolio. And with the massive drawdowns in 2018 and 2022, that's quite realistic, isn't it?

My son also suggested 3xGTAA as an alternative to BTC. However, Zero does not carry it. 🤷
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Yup, I guess so.

How nice. Yes, I also cursed until I looked for a broker who does it without video ID 😂
3xGTAA would of course be interesting in the scenario in which everyone loses interest in Bitcoin and it runs to a value of 0 over 10 years. In this scenario, you would still lose a lot with 10% Btc and annual rebalancing. 3xGTAA would only lose money for a short time
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@SchlaubiSchlumpf or not at all
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2Semana
@SchlaubiSchlumpf If BTC falls to 0, the 10% in his portfolio would be gone. But we've already discussed that he shouldn't let it come to that. He is prepared to take a risk of €200, i.e. we have set an SL for BTC at just under 60k. I should then let him know. 😁

And about 3xGTAA: the model also works without BTC, but a good part of the dream performance comes from BTC. Without it, it's "only" just over 30% pa.
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@Epi also as a final tip (no financial advice)
https://www.tiktok.com/@memesco55/video/7438581767444974880
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2Semana
@SchlaubiSchlumpf 100 leverage on Xeon = 250% pa with 0 risk!

Secret money hack no. 1! 🤫
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@Epi easy! Why didn't anyone think of that before? And then I'll borrow some more money and put it into the Xeon too
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2Semana
@SchlaubiSchlumpf Sure, someone has already thought of it! It's just so ingenious that it remains a secret.
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Perhaps it would arouse his interest and willingness to invest if he has a "safe" individual share from a sector that interests him anyway and then learns more about it step by step. Take a look at an investor presentation. At least that's how it started for me. Of course, dividends or the thought that you really own part of the company with shares are also motivating. All the best to you.
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2Semana
@TaxesAreTheft Thank you! I've already tried everything (IBM 2023 because of quantum computers). The interest lasts a few weeks and then that's it. He's just not an investor. But he doesn't have to be. After all, the capital market offers something for everyone. Or does it?
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@Epi Perhaps a currency-hedged TIPS etf would be something? Or is that also out because of the aversion to bonds?
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2Semana
If there is absolutely no risk $EXVM instead of $XEON
I chose the same for myself.

Spontaneously, I would feel safe putting the 20% into an All World instead of gold and BTC. But that's just my personal feeling.
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2Semana
@six The $EXVM has a whole lot less return than $XEON. There doesn't have to be that little risk. 😅

20% ACWI would also be possible, 60%maxDD would be approx. 10% risk for the overall portfolio. So that's okay. However, the 7% return (probably less over the next few years) is also really paltry compared to BTC. The share would add just over 1% per year to the total return, which is €5 per month on €6000.
That's not going to get the youngster out from behind the stove. 😅
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2Semana
@Epi maybe a fixed deposit ladder?
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2Semana
@six A fixed deposit ladder might bring 1%pa more, is not as flexible and worst of all: it requires commitment. 😅
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I have no recommendation, but I recognize one of my sons (19 years old) in the description. The generation that grew up with "their parents will already know"? 🤔
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2Semana
@Novius He's not quite like that. 😅
He wants to know what his parents know. But he's not particularly interested in money. He's most interested in my stories about financial market theory paradigms and my troll models. 😅
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@Epi Knowing what your parents know "yes", but working on it yourself "no". That's what I meant with my statement 🙂
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2Semana
@Novius I see! Well, when he eventually earns more money than he can spend, he'll deal with it. 😅
Apart from that, I can understand if you have other priorities in your teenage life than the stock market and money.
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Another call money account (e.g. with TR) instead of $XEON is out of the question? Or a part in $XEON and a part in call money?
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2Semana
@DusselDuck As I said, he's with Zero. There's no overnight money.
What's the problem with Xeon?
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@Epi Just had a quick look at the return on $XEON. Actually quite ok!
In this respect, the composition fits, why not! 👍
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Do brokers accept such a transfer from a parent to a child without any problems? o how to transfer a cell phone number?
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2Semana
@randomdude I still have to find out. It might be easiest to sell the pile, transfer the money to a newly opened custody account and buy the pile again. The costs for this should be around €3-5. 🤷
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