Hello everyone,

I would like to start a discussion about the best #etf s for the #schweiz to start. Let's start with the most important basics:

• Dividends are taxed as income in Switzerland (even for accumulating ETFs). So ultimately it doesn't matter for tax purposes whether you have a distributing or accumulating ETF.
• Access to American ETFsas not a member of the EU and therefore access to significantly cheaper ETF alternatives (e.g. $VT (-0,96%) ).
• Agreement between the USA and Switzerland reduces the US withholding tax from 30% to 15%. The remaining 15% can be claimed in the tax return for American ETFs.
• In the case of high to very high assets, ETFs with an American fund domicile may be taxed by the IRS for tax purposes.
• In the case of inheritance it could be a documentary/bureaucratic challenge for the surviving dependants with the IRS to transfer the ETFs with American brokers (classic #ikbr ).
• From a tax perspective, Irish ETFs are the most interesting after American ETFs due to the agreement between Ireland and the USA to reduce withholding tax from 30% to 15%. However, the remaining 15% cannot be claimed on the tax return.

For some years now I have been investing in the MSCI World $XDWD (-0,98%) (World Industrialized Countries) and not too long ago the AC World $XMAW (-0,98%) (All World). This is because, in addition to my Swiss broker (#saxobank ) and #ikbr my German bank (#consorsbank ) and Amundi and Xtracker ETFs can be saved there free of charge, which would be obsolete due to the low costs of Saxo and/or IKBR. In addition, these are accumulating and I would prefer to save in distributing ETFs. With a TER of 0.19% and 0.25%, these are okay, but certainly not the best ($VT (-0,96%) or $at 0.06%).

Irish alternatives would be the $WEBG (-0,9%) (TER 0.7%, distributing, All-World), $UBU7 (-1,06%) (TER 0.10%, distributing, MSCI-World), $VDEV (-1,09%) (TER 0.10%, distributing, industrialized countries) or $XDWL (-1,07%) (TER 0.12%, distributing, MSCI-World and counterpart to my accumulating $XDWD (-0,98%) ).

Which ETF do you save in if you are a Swiss resident? Which ETF would you save in if you were in the Swiss "luxury" situation?

Hello Community,

Today I'd like to discuss my somewhat confusing use of various brokers. Maybe one or the other can give me some support here.

Consorsbank

I started investing a few years ago when I was still living in Germany. I used a well-known but rather expensive broker ( #consorsbank ). ETF savings plans are partly free here and I use the $XDWD (-0,98%) (TER 0.19%) as well as the $XMAW (-0,98%) (TER 0.25%). These 2 ETFs are deliberately separated, as the latter is backed by another cash inflow, the increase in value of which I would like to view separately (rent of a paid-off rental apartment).

However, historically, one-off purchases (order costs: 10 Euro + 0.25%) and savings plans (order costs: 1.5%) some individual positions such as $GOOGL (-2,28%) , $MC (+0,4%) , $META (-1,11%) , $SHEL (-1,69%) , $BATS (-1,84%) , $INTC (-4,07%) or $ASML (-0,72%) . So a colorful portfolio without focus (e.g. growth or dividends only, USA only or other).

Current account is required at Consorsbank and therefore not closed, custody account not absolutely necessary.

SaxoBank

I moved to Switzerland almost 4 years ago and initially invested here via DeGiro, but due to the cost reduction I switched to SaxoBank and actually closed DeGiro completely. Order fees of 1$ + 0.08% for American shares. European ones are usually 3 Euro + 0.08%. However, the stamp duty which applies to all brokers in Switzerland (0.075 Swiss stock exchange, 0.15% foreign stock exchange).

ETFs continued to be saved via Consorsbank. Individual shares (apart from a few small savings plans) from now on with SaxoBank. This applies to both new and existing positions ($GOOGL (-2,28%) , $INTC (-4,07%) , $MSFT (-1,57%) , $AMD (-2,29%) , $NESN (+4,08%) or $NOVO B (+5,32%) )

No trading with fractional shares possible! Complete transfer from Consorsbank to SaxoBank therefore not possible!

InteractiveBroker

Via Getquin, as well as via a mentioned Reddit group for Swiss finance, I came across the possibility to invest very cost-efficiently with #ibkr which specifically offers the possibility to invest in American ETFs (e.g. $VT (-0,96%) or $VOO (-1,28%) ), which are not only significantly cheaper (TER 0.07%, or 0.03%), but are also tax-exempt due to a tax treaty between #usa and the #schweiz bring tax advantages.

The order fees are incredibly low (0.0035 USD per share) and, as it is not a Swiss broker, there is no stamp duty! Accordingly, another 0.15% (0.075 for Swiss stock exchange) less compared to SaxoBank! Another strong argument is that I can transfer money free of charge from my German bank #euro as well as from my Swiss bank #chf free of charge. However, I would not like to put everything on one card/broker. I haven't invested in IBKR yet, but I'm wondering how I should best divide up my brokers.

Trading with fractional shares is possible and therefore also a portfolio transfer from Consorsbank.

Quick side info:

My wife has her own account with Consorsbank (before moving to Switzerland) and #degiro her own custody account, which doesn't make it any less complicated.

Summary:

Consorsbank:

ETFs plus shares available, high fees for shares, fractional shares possible, based in Germany

SaxoBank:

Shares available, low fees but stamp duty, no fractions of shares, domiciled in Switzerland

IBKR:

nothing available yet, very low fees, no stamp duty, deposit Euro & CHF possible, American ETFs like $VT (-0,96%) fractional shares possible, domicile in the USA (or UK for Swiss investors).

Questions:

a.) In future ETF, e.g. $VT (-0,96%) with IBKR?

a2.) If yes, liquidate existing ETFs and reinvest in American ETFs?

b.) Transfer portfolio, especially Consorsbank?

b2.) If yes, how to divide between SaxoBank and IBKR? Only IBKR?

c.) Are there major risks with IBKR (based in the USA/UK?)

Invested again in $VT (-0,96%) after the December salary has already been received. 😀

So it's the end of the month $VT (-0,96%) top up.

All Country World vs. Nasdaq 100

I've been here for a couple of weeks and regularly look at the portfolios presented and the reactions/recommendations.

One thing is particularly striking in my opinion: All Country World ETFs are generally seen as the holy grail and investments in technology stocks such as the Nasdaq 100 are seen as a risk (just like an overweighting of the USA, according to the motto "be warned"). Why is that?

The annual return of the $QQQ calculated for the last 30 years was 13.76%*

In the case of e.g. $VT (-0,96%) the annual return was 6.23%*

1$ invested in QQQ on 01.02.1994 would be worth 47.87$ today vs. 6.13$ in the case of VT*

*Source: regarding QQQ https://www.lazyportfolioetf.com/etf/invesco-qqq-trust-qqq/

regarding VT https://www.lazyportfolioetf.com/allocation/all-country-world-stocks-portfolio/

Of course, the QQQ drops more in percentage terms than VT in bad phases, but in the long term it still remains better.

In the case of a long investment horizon (e.g. from 15 years) with a savings plan, I see no reason to avoid the QQQ or similar values across the board or to advise against them.

It is not a recommendation on my part, everyone should decide for themselves ... just take everything into consideration...

Dividend and long-term growth...

YUH

Nice dividend, good ETF ;)