3Mon·

How much return can you really expect from the stock market?

On social media, people often calculate how rich you could be in the future if you simply invested in the stock market for 30 years. Often 10-12% p.a. is then calculated. The comments then discuss how realistic this return is, and usually (especially on American channels) it is argued that this is the historical average of the S&P500. This argument has always bothered me because, for one thing, inflation is not taken into account in this calculation. On the other hand, the country index that has performed particularly well in the past is used. However, there is no guarantee that this will also be the case in the coming decades. What bothered me the most, however, was the fact that it was always pretended that future returns were already set in stone. As if it were a given that you could retire a millionaire if you simply invested €200 per month over 40 years. However, this completely disregards the risk of subsequent returns, for example. And because I wanted a more realistic picture of this, I simulated the stock market 20,000 times and I'm now going to share the results with you:


Note 1:

I do not guarantee that the results are correct. Errors may have crept in, and (for me at least) it is not entirely clear whether a simulation that only takes the CAGR and standard deviation into account really reflects reality. Furthermore, the calculation was based on an annual savings plan, which would perform somewhat worse than a monthly one.


Note 2 (To better categorize whether this can be):

As a little check, I asked ChatGPT if he could calculate for me the probability interval (10% to 90%) for the expected return for a 20 year investment period. His results were slightly (0.7% and 1.1% respectively) higher than mine. When asked about the difference from my simulation results, he said that the difference was due to the volatility drag, which he had not taken into account in his normal distribution estimate, and therefore the simulation was the more accurate result. Furthermore, ChatGPT (I believe) calculated with a one-time investment, which naturally leads to slightly higher returns.


Regarding the assumptions:

  • Annual savings plan, without initial capital
  • CAGR (compound annual growth rate) = 10.19% p.a.
  • Constant inflation of 3.28% (results in a real return of 6.91%)
  • Annual increase in the savings amount by inflation
  • A standard deviation of 14.8%

The data comes from the MSCI World since 1979 [1]

In the end, inflation would be subtracted from the return to get the real return.


Results:

attachment

Here, for example, you can see that after 5 years there is an 80% probability that you will be in the black in real terms (i.e. after inflation). The median is between 6.0% and 6.2% p.a. in each case. This is slightly less than the 6.91% (CAGR), which was to be expected as the distribution is asymmetrical. ChatGPT calculated that with a CAGR of 6.91% and 14.8%, the median should be around 5.81%, which roughly matches my results.

attachment

In the second chart, you can see the probabilities a little better. For example, the probability that the return will be between 4% and 8% p.a. is 50% for an investment period of 30 years.

The probability of not even achieving a return of 4% p.a. after 40 years is still around 20%.


Conclusion:

To avoid being disappointed in the future, you should expect somewhat more conservative returns, as the probability of poor returns over a long investment horizon is higher than most people assume.


Data source [1]:

https://curvo.eu/backtest/de/portfolio/iwda--NoIgkg6gIggiA0xRgKIAY0CEAsAZArAJoCcAHAMwICMAunUA

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21 Comments

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You can't just hide such a cool part under such a boring title and a lengthy introduction. I almost scrolled over it and missed reading it.

Great post. Just a bit of a quick ending. A bit more depth would have been interesting
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@DonkeyInvestor Thanks for the feedback. What exactly would you have been interested in?
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@philippklmr I can't say that exactly. Maybe a bit of blah blah blah at the end. What action steps do you derive from this? What else should you consider? Why are you the biggest? ...?
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Thought the pictures say more than 1000 words haha. Well, if I find the time, I'll certainly do a few more simulations. My simulation wish list currently includes
- Savings plan vs one-off investment
- Withdrawal strategies for old age

I can then try to go into a bit more detail.
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Very good! At last another well-founded contribution.

Since the topic concerns everyone who invests in ETFs for retirement provision, the article belongs in the Best Of!

@Kundenservice
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@Epi Thanks for the feedback!
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Top thanks
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Thanks for the good content!
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Great contribution, thank you! ☺️
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Thank you was very informative 🙏
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Great contribution. Down-to-earth and honest. That's what many people are missing in the current world and that's why we need more people like you. Thank you.
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Thanks for the great contribution!!!
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Great, absolutely real contribution.
Can only fully agree
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I think your posts are pretty cool! Keep it up
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Very good contribution. May I ask briefly, were dividends reinvested or omitted? I personally think similarly and always try to calculate with a return of 6-7 percent, which is about the same here.
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Thank you, the dividends were reinvested.
Thank you for this contribution. However, the assumption that things will go the same way in the future as in the past is unfortunately the wrong basis in my eyes (I don't know the 100% correct basis for future forecasts either, but I tend to use Elliot Wave analyses, exactly the ones that always provide some reason why things didn't go as predicted, but I still come up with a rate of 93.8%). In addition, interest rates have been low for a long time (a lot of loans have been granted, i.e. money from the banks that didn't exist before!) and a lot of money has been pumped into the markets since 2008, not to mention how much has been added by Bitcoin and other coins. In this respect, it would certainly be wonderful if this were to happen, but I am currently convinced that this will not be the case. Let's revisit this in 5 years' time ☺️
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@AIex Thank you. Why do you tend to do this, and how is the 93.8% rate to be understood?
@philippklmr 93.8% of the Elliot Wave calculations (ABC, 1-3, 1-5 waves, for possible entry and exit points) were, with a few marginal deviations, correct, i.e. they occurred as predicted
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This is great, thanks!
The assumption that an MSCI World reflects the "striving for more productivity in the world" does not correspond to the actual index.
Rather, the focus is on the still leading economy "USA", which ensures that its own economy generates continuous growth.
World orders are transient. Whether an MSCI World is then correctly rebalanced is questionable.
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