Which broker is the right one?

@Mit44inRente Hate or the same (justified) criticism over and over again?

As a full-service bank in particular, you should do better than virtually dissolving the support team, almost exclusively using AI to write answers and having better answers than "Can't do it right now" to the whereabouts of several thousand euros.

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Kris@Mit44inRente

@Staatsmann I'm not really in the mood for a discussion, so I'll just say that TR is one of the best brokers on the market. 99.9% of TR users are satisfied and have no problems whatsoever. Those who are (also rightly) dissatisfied are just (repeatedly) loud and louder, which is just annoying here. Is TR support bad? Yes. One point of criticism against dozens of positive TR points. I could tell stories about other brokers and their support that would make your ears prick up. (e.g. Baaderbank) Am I now shouting about it until everyone "also" thinks the brokers are stupid? No. And a broker comparison based solely on emotions is really not a serious factual comparison.

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@Mit44inRente no not repeatedly loud. I was talking about TR like you until a few weeks ago ;) it's just getting more. 99.99 becomes 80 ;)

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Stefan@Nimbuna

18H

@Mit44inRente I have no problems with TR. The support is lousy, but I haven't needed it yet

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What would be your recommendation for a broker for an average order volume of 100k per month?

With such amounts, other factors play a role, such as reliability of execution, transparency of spreads, choice of stock exchanges.

I had already asked such a question here about 3xGTAA, but unfortunately did not receive an answer. Perhaps you know more?

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@Epi phew... so for standard cases -> Scalable. I don't have any problems there, but: in times like April 7th of this year, it wasn't that easy either.
It was fine with ING. But I assume you don't have 1x 100k, but are pushing several partial amounts around? Then of course that's a massive amount of money. I would say Scalable is the most reliable of those mentioned, followed by Zero.

Apart from ING, there are of course compromises with stock exchanges.

They are all transparent when it comes to spreads

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@lawinvest Thank you for your answer!
I actually meant a portfolio turnover of 100k per month. It should be as cheap as possible, otherwise the shifts are not worthwhile. But I also don't want nasty things like slippage or trading losses.
At the moment I go with SB+. Normally I find it very good. But when the market volatility is high, there are clear deficits.
I suspect that at some point the reliability will be worth more than the few euros saved on trading costs. But I haven't been able to quantify that yet.
Is reliability not an issue with your amounts at SC?

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@Epi yes, I also understood that you were assuming 100k. I just assumed that you didn't have a 100k order but ... I don't know ... 20x 5k (which would cause the fees at ING to go through the roof)

I don't have any problems with SC. It is well known that on days like 07.04. there is not much going on between 08:00 and 10:00. However, I was able to order normally in 08.15. But I also don't have an acute need to trade there directly. I usually wait 2-3 days. For the most urgent cases, I have and keep a custody account with ING. However, that doesn't help with an urgent sale. But I tend to accept the risk in favor of SC

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@lawinvest Okay, thanks. Then I'll take a closer look at SC.
My shifts will increase with the performance of my strategy. At the moment it's still limited, I'm sticking to individual order volumes of 10k. But with a portfolio volume of e.g. 500k and an annual turnover of 300%, it adds up to quite a bit per month. There could then be tranches of 100k per trade. I am not familiar with the dynamics of orders of this size.
What else is there to consider? Just ask yourself where I'm already at. 😏

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@Epi the only thing I notice is that when I order something big like Greencoat, the order doesn't go through, but with everything I currently have in my portfolio (these are mostly stocks with high market capitalization and a lot of turnover), I don't notice anything even with 600k orders. Mine are not much higher. But I also always set a limit. But Scalable also automatically sets a 4% below the current price. Otherwise it would be conceivable with a market folder that some shares are not sold/buyed at the intended price

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Chris@Multibagger

@Epi Why don't you take a look at Flatex? I think they're great, but I don't trade 100,000 a month either. The only thing missing are share savings plans. Otherwise they have everything I need. Many trading venues, favorable fees, especially in the USA. Currency accounts, stable connections, comprehensible spreads. Many order variants. If you need it, cryptos and even CFD trading if you want it, oh and for @lawinvest several depots are also possible.

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@lawinvest Okay, I believe that for stocks with high turnover. The challenge for me is probably that I tend to trade ETFs and ETCs. Turnover is sometimes quite low.
Recently, I was only 20% down on a coffee ETC when I placed the order. Limits or SLs were not executed. It was only a small amount (3k). I don't want something like that to happen to me with 100k.
But thanks for your tips. If it becomes relevant for me, I'll definitely get in touch again. 😁

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Thank you. Flatex has also often been recommended as reliable. Will definitely be on the list of candidates! 👍

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@Multibagger Can you enlighten me on the fees: I don't get the alleged 5.90 flat rate anywhere because there is an additional third-party surcharge? 2€ usually? But at xetra only 0.0014% of the value, at least 50 cents? So the xetra order is actually the cheapest there?

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Felix@G30G43BR4

@Epi If I understand your question correctly, you are primarily concerned with the choice of stock exchange. I would choose the right stock exchanges for the products you are trading. In the second step, you can then look at which broker you can trade on which exchanges and with which conditions.

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teschi@teschi

And if you want a broker who is also reachable and you can place an order (see beginning of April): ING.

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Mo@BigMo

For historical reasons, I have my largest portfolio with exemption orders at DKB.
The fees are not free, but trading is not active there either.

My second largest portfolio is with TR with a high 6-digit sum.
So far I have been spared horror stories there and have had to prove the origin of the money several times. But this always went without a hitch... Just like sending money, everything works perfectly 🤷‍♂️
I'm probably just lucky, but your reports give me food for thought...

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@BigMo Until two weeks ago, I was also the one who wrote it like you 😅

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Enrique@Dividenden_Monteur

@BigMo With luck, some people have experienced this somewhere.
Nothing for a long time and then one problem after another out of nowhere, while you can forget about the support somewhere.

That's one way to mess up your market leadership and PR. :(

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In the new Scalabe, savings plans on Swiss equities are possible, only "tested" this week with $KNIN

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Investorenfrosch 🐸.@Investorenfrosch

@Dividenden_Monteur oops... got mixed up. Thanks - corrected it above

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Royal_TS@Royal_TS

I think Zero is great. I have maximum flexibility to build up my dividend portfolio here, as I can react to price alerts by executing the savings plans on a weekly basis. I am slowly reducing my ING portfolio. Buying shares here is simply too expensive for me. The performance of the Zero app is top. If the real-time transfer at Baader Bank is implemented now, I'll be perfectly happy 😄

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Thank you for this very informative article. I recently switched from TR to ING and can only say that TR no longer sees a cent from me. Based on your article, however, I will take a look at scalable's portfolio. Maybe it will come to a second depot👍

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Kate🦋@Iwamoto

Very interesting article, thank you. I also have a custody account with Flatex, but the Austrian version, which is unlikely to be any different from the German one, and I find Flatex very reliable and comprehensive.

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All-in-or-nothing@All-in-or-nothing

@Iwamoto I've just had a look... Flatex is just starting the race for me, for my main custody account. I don't really care about 5.90. I don't need share savings plans, if then only in the side account for fun (Sina ETF 😉). Multiple custody accounts possible. Software looks good, foreign currency is possible...
But it would be the perfect package if it could also do share savings plans 😅

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Chris@Multibagger

@lawinvest my speech😂

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VillaSpilla@VillaSpilla

Nice summary of 2-3 little things that may not have been mentioned yet. I am with TR (30%), Zero (35%), Smart (10), Scal (10), Comdirekt (basic account) by tradition (15%) - (asset share in brackets)
For larger sums GGF! take into account that "Baader Bank" is behind some of them and the deposit protection "only" applies to the person, not to the account. TR, Scalable & Comdi have their own banking license.
Smartbroker attractive for Wikifolios (e.g. GTAA @Epi:-)). The wikifolios cost fees, but you can also learn a lot from the different approaches of the traders. I find TR very fast when transfers come from the basis account.
PS: Which favorite ETFs are missing on ZERO, @lawinvest?
Actually, there should always be good alternatives.

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Solitair@Solitair

I would throw just trade into the round. I've had a small portfolio there for about 4-5 years, but only five shares that I buy from time to time.
It runs via Sutor Bank. An order costs €1 and there are three stock exchanges to choose from. It's nice that when you place an order, you immediately get offers from all three stock exchanges, so you can choose the best price and the best spread.
There are also savings plans, but I don't have any, I mean you can only set them monthly. Other than that, no frills.
As usual, if broker and custodian bank are separate, you have to wait two to three days for your dividends. There is no interest on the clearing account.
I can't say anything about the support as I have never needed it.

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John@Doe

Scalable is already quite good, everything I can't buy there, I buy at Freedom24. 😁

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@Doe but Freedom 24 is not tax-simple in DE, is it?

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John@Doe

@All-in-or-nothing No, it's not as tax-simple, but you also have some advantages and can do a lot more.

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Davroar@Davroar

IBKR & Trading212.

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Matthias@ZaphodB

Someone has really made an effort here, which may be a real help, especially for beginners in this field. Thank you very much.

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Pedro M.@serkeftin

Thank you for this great analysis!

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How does it look with higher amounts, e.g. for me there is just under 70 k on TR or in shares and ETF, such sums on smartbrokers makes sense? Or with fixed banks such as ING?

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@Bizzle That's quite a sum if you use it all at once or, for example, 2x 35k, where the fees on the foreign stock exchange are no longer so important - and neither are the ING fees.
I would say: save your money from TR :D

But in general, this should be the case for all brokers. I myself have around 40% with Scalable, 40% with ING and 20% with Smartbroker

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Robert@Baraccus

@Bizzle I have almost ten times the amount you have and I know some people who have seven-figure amounts on it. No problems so far.

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@lawinvest hahaha I'm in the process of finding a new broker, so the post fits very well :D, why did you split it between several brokers? Just in case one goes bankrupt or you can't access it for whatever reason?

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@Bizzle No, that has "historical" reasons... I was originally split between: Growth at Scalable (because more orders) and Dividend at ING. But I "only" had a seven-figure custody account. Then came the transfer from my grandparents and I asked myself whether I shouldn't go for dividend growth/dividends anyway and combine everything at ING. But I didn't transfer everything from SC and now I do buy there from time to time because I'm just too stingy for the fees despite my large order :D But at the moment I'm annoyed and want to consolidate again, obviously at SC. And probably a bit of savings plan fun at Zero

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@lawinvest okay thank you, so SC is the best so far in your eyes?

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

@Baraccus ah okay Crazy, thought it wouldn't be so smart to have such a large sum via online brokers, which broker are you with if you don't mind me asking?

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@Bizzle It doesn't really matter where you keep your shares, because regardless of whether TR Scalable or anyone else goes bankrupt, you still have access to your shares as they are held by the custodian anyway and not by the broker. These assets count as special assets and are not affected by the insolvency estate. Only your "cash" is affected and this is protected by the deposit guarantee up to 100k. Whenever I have more than 100k lying around, I always put part of it in an overnight money ETF and it is protected again as a special asset.

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Olli@Olli68

Sparkasse

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Kai@Dividenden-Sammler

nice summary ... top
But I have a question .... are you sure that the new Scalable really pays the dividend on the ex-date? That would mean for example with Japanese stocks that they pay the dividend about 3 months before the payment date and with many US stocks also about 3 weeks before. I don't think that's the case and they pay the dividend on the payday and not on the ex-date.
For my part, I would definitely no longer go to a broker where B.bank is pulling the strings in the background.

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Dividendenoldie@Dividendenoldie

@Dividenden-Sammler yes indeed, I am sure. I can't confirm this for all stocks right now, but for US stocks they came on ex day + 1 (with a delay due to foreign currency), as well as for European stocks... all of them came on ex day. I was very surprised by that. I have no idea whether this was/is a mistake or intentional.

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@lawinvest With me they are extremely late, sometimes up to 4 working days after payday, I have never experienced payment after ex-day! Otherwise I think they're quite good...

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Dividendenoldie@Dividendenoldie

@Dividendenoldie in the new Scalable or in the old one? In the old one they were always late for me too

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@lawinvest in the new, the dividend from Ping An was delayed a week, and was also posted with the wrong date...

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M.T.@MTFW

I can highly recommend Santander Bank.

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Ludym@Ludym

Thanks for your input!
I think Scalable Capital works really well for me. I still have Trade Republic as a secondary account - so far I haven't had any problems, but I just don't like the app interface. That's why I'm now looking around for another broker that offers two things: Trailing stop-loss orders and the ability to trade in multiple currencies and on different international exchanges like in the US or Japan. What would you recommend?

And do you have any experience with Interactive Brokers (IBKR) or are you planning to look into it?

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All-in-or-nothing@All-in-or-nothing

@Ludym IBKR is in any case not for Germany steuereinfach🤷🏼‍♂️ Otherwise there are a lot of cool features there

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@Ludym I stumbled across Ibkr because of an influencer I know (... from Dubai ;) ).
Result: I find the fee structure very opaque. It also seems to depend on the capital. The larger the capital, the more likely it is to be there.
Then take a look at flatex instead. Because at Smartvroker you also get that apart from the trailing SL, but the interface is far worse than TR

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Max@max007

To be honest TR is enough but smartbtojer is better

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Tim@Tacticus

Hello Sina,
I have now switched from TR to Scalable.
I've already transferred my securities account and everything went smoothly. So far everything else has been great! For me the best broker. And getting better and better. (Been with TR and Scalable at the same time since 2022).

I could imagine that Scalable will soon offer sub-depots or several (linked) depots under the same name (see now Scalable and Baader paraellel.

I have already passed this on to Scalable as feedback, as I would also like to have my portfolio groups separated. For the sole reason that an allocation and performance analysis on Getquin is much easier to see in groups.

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Stulle 🥪@Stullen-Portfolio

@Tacticus According to support, several custody accounts per user may come after the children's custody accounts.

At least that was the answer a few months ago when I also asked.

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Walter S.@Roots

If I had to give a recommendation, based on what I've read over the months, anything but trade republic...

In times of low costs for all brokers, service is the criterion...

Personally, I can't complain about trade republic - clear app and lots of basic data, all bookings are correct...

But I can understand anyone who has problems with trade republic...

I personally have several brokers and am doing well with them....

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Thank you, dear Sina @lawinvest, for highlighting and mentioning my favorite ETFs. I'm glad that someone else likes them and that you think they are generally worthwhile (in the truest sense of the word 😉). 🤜🏻🤛🏻 Greetings back 😎

You've put together a fine compilation of the brokers and their respective special features, advantages and disadvantages. No additions on my part.

...and thanks for the warning about TR.

Greetings
🥪

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

If TR continues not to collect social security contributions on French dividends, they will remain number 1 on my list.

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stock_whiz_2254@stock_whiz_2254

Yes, but what about securities loans?

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View all 3 further answers

Capt‘n@Wuestenschiff

Good summary. I have two portfolios with Scalable and Zero and see your analysis confirmed. I haven't had any problems with either of them so far.

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