16H·

Hello, I need your help,

Topic: Capital-forming benefits - how to invest?

I have the opportunity to receive €40 in capital-forming benefits (VL) from my employer. Now the question arises as to how I can best invest it.

One option would be to pay the VL into a pension fund. The interest rate there is currently 3.5%, but this interest rate is not guaranteed. I have not yet been able to find any information about possible costs or fees.

Alternatively, I could pay the VL into my currently dormant building society savings contract. In the long term, I would like to buy a property, but this is not planned for the next five years.

I am convinced of the benefits of investing in the stock market. Unfortunately, my employer does not seem to offer this option. Is this actually legally permissible?

I don't qualify for the employee savings allowance as my taxable income is around €70,000. I also have around €10,000 in additional income per year, and this is increasing. I already invest € 2,000 a month of this in the ETF via a savings plan $IWDA (+0.14%) and € 200 in $BTC (-0.23%) . The €40 VL is of course not particularly significant in comparison.

What is the most sensible option for the VL in my situation? Thank you in advance for your opinions and experiences.

14 Comments

All-in-or-nothing@All-in-or-nothing

16H

Oskar VL, if AnSpZ doesn't play a role for you anyway. No blocking periods, transfers to your own custody account possible from €1000 etc.. Your employer is not allowed to specify the product. They get an account number and a reason for payment (as with any VL investment; standardized Vorgang🤷🏼‍♂️) and simply transfer the money. Shouldn't be a problem.

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Alexander L.@Qheherain

15H

@All-in-or-nothing. I also invest in this and think it's good. Investment in 11 ESG-etfs, basically a small ACWI. The average return for me is 6.5% p.a. But I've only been invested for 3 years.

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Alex@AlexBloch

15H

@All-in-or-nothing Info from MS Copilot:

"**Oskar VL** is a provider of capital-forming benefits (VL) that specializes in investing in ETFs. Here is the most important information about the fees:

### 💰 **Fee structure at Oskar VL**
- **Custody account management fee**:
Oskar charges **1% of the custody account value per year** as a management fee. For a custody account value of €2,000, for example, this means around €20 per year[1](https://www.vermoegenswirksame-leistungen.de/vl-depot/).

- **ETF costs**:
In addition, there are **ETF-internal costs from approx. 0.13% per year**, which are already included in the prices of the ETFs.[2](https://onlinebanken.com/depots/erfahrungen/oskar/)

- **Order fees**:
There are **no order fees** - i.e. no costs for purchases or sales.[2](https://onlinebanken.com/depots/erfahrungen/oskar/)

- **Minimum savings rate**:
The minimum monthly savings rate is **€25**.[3](https://depotstudent.de/oskar-vl-erfahrungen-vl-sparen-mit-etfs-im-test/)

- **No basic fee**:
There is **no separate basic fee** for the VL account - only the regular Oskar fees apply.[4](https://www.oskar.de/vermoegenswirksame-leistungen/)

- **No state subsidy**:
Oskar VL is **not eligible** for the employee savings allowance.[3](https://depotstudent.de/oskar-vl-erfahrungen-vl-sparen-mit-etfs-im-test/)

### 📌 Special features
- The investment is made exclusively in **sustainable ETFs** with global diversification.
- The management is handled by **Scalable Capital**, the custody account is managed by **Baader Bank**.
- There is **no minimum term** - the statutory lock-up period of 7 years does not apply.

Would you like a comparison with other VL providers such as Finvesto or Comdirect?"

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Alex@AlexBloch

15H

@All-in-or-nothing Hm, I've just seen that Oskar VL only invests in ESG ETFs. You have to expect a noticeably lower return (6% p.a.) than with a standard world ETF such as MSCI World or ACWI (8% p.a.)... which has a negative impact on the compound interest effect of accumulating ETFs in particular.

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All-in-or-nothing@All-in-or-nothing

14H

@AlexBloch That's correct, as is the cost overview. I accepted it at the time for the flexibility and simplicity. As long as I had the funds in my custody account (change of provider due to a change of employer and my new employer's wish for "loyalty to the association"), the performance was solid and reasonable and didn't have to lag behind a world ETF. So the Robo does a very reasonable job scheinbar🤷🏼‍♂️.

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Thomas@Thomas_1963

16H

My 40 Euro VL since Feb. 24 at FNZ-Bank are currently up 15% $EXXT.

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All-in-or-nothing@All-in-or-nothing

14H

@Thomas_1963 That's bitter, given that the ETF made just under 34% in this period🫢. The cost structure is probably not entirely customer-friendly😅.

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Alex@AlexBloch

15H

You can/must open a certified VL custody account, which unfortunately not all banks/brokers offer themselves, but usually only indirectly via third-party providers, e.g. the savings banks via Dekabank, for which an extra annual fee of approx. 12 EUR is then due. You then only need to provide your employer with the relevant clearing account to which they should transfer your VL contributions each month. The VL broker then buys the shares or a VL-certified share ETF of your choice from this account each month. In other words, he can and must not care which VL-certified ETF is actually behind the account number! Select a VL-ETF here, for example:
https://extraetf.com/de/etf-search?wealth_build_eligible=true&distribution=0&asset_class=2&number_of_holding_from=1000&aum_from=500
(You will probably make a total profit of 40-50% after 5-6 years, i.e. an average of approx. 6-7% p.a. (before tax). ...A VL investment may not be sold for 7 years anyway).

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All-in-or-nothing@All-in-or-nothing

14H

@AlexBloch Unfortunately, this is not correct. If you are not entitled to an employee savings allowance and the terms and conditions of the custody account/contract allow it, disposals are possible and no lock-up periods have been agreed. With the right provider, almost all ETFs with > 60 % shares are possible.

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GurkiHDx@GurkiHDx

15H

I have a VL savings plan with Finvesto on an S&P 500 ETF. The salmon is ready.

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Alex@AlexBloch

15H

@GurkiHDx Beware of the AI bubble in the S&P500.
As soon as people realize that not everyone wants to pay so much per month for an expensive premium AI subscription and that companies are not getting the hoped-for productivity boost for their employees, AI tech companies will collapse because this is their only remaining business model apart from the cloud business.
(Software alone, e.g. as an operating system, no longer costs anything or is freely available as equivalent open source software...)

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Yannic1990@Yannic1990

15H

Have a look at Comdirect -> they offer a VL Depot. But the whole thing runs via FNZ... I can't tell you whether you can bypass Comdirect and contact FNZ directly.
There are a few ETFs that are suitable for VL... you'll find what you're looking for.

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Zerax@Zerax

14H

@Yannic1990 FNZ direkt would then be finvesto. I myself am with FNZ via Comdirect at $IWDA.

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Haberlapp@Haberlapp

11Min

I recently had the same question. I also already have a custody account with comdirect and thought it was a shame not to be able to invest my VL directly with comdirect but via FNZ.
Bausparer was no longer an option, I had been saving in it and now needed it for a modernization. As there are no plans in this direction in the near future and I don't need to secure any loan interest rates, a building society saver with an interest rate of 1% was out of the question.
I finally went to Oskar as I've had my eye on it for a while and am now simply running my VL through it. I can't say anything about the development yet as I've only been saving in it for 3 months, but I found the ETF selection interesting in terms of country coverage.

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