1Yr·

#immobilien An interesting article for anyone thinking about investing in an investor property.

And for those who think that real estate is so much worse than shares and ETFs, it's certainly also interesting to listen to it without judgment - just 10 minutes from timestamp 17:10 is enough for a "high level".

The interviewee is a real estate entrepreneur who is certainly not entirely neutral, but the arguments have something to them.

I myself am also invested in real estate, so of course I like these arguments 😁 - how could it be otherwise with contributions that confirm your own investment case 🤣🤪

PS: The whole post is 48 minutes, but can be listened to at speed 2.0 due to the speaking speed 😉

Have a nice Sunday evening and a successful start to the stock market week again tomorrow

https://youtu.be/6cCsgI1sAEY?si=905EiQrxw1loE36U

www.youtube.comExperte: DARUM sind Immobilien BESSER als Dein ETF-Sparplan & bieten jetzt Riesen-Chancen

32 Comments

GreenWash@GreenWash

1Yr

I own a property myself and understand the arguments, but I see things a little more differently... According to his statement, you should buy a property before you start investing in the capital market. The first argument is that the leverage is very high with an investment of only 10% or up to 40% and that the property pays for itself through the rental payments. I agree with him so far, but I have SIGNIFICANTLY less stress running an equity savings plan on $VWCE and not having to deal with anything. If that's what I want, I can also hope for the next low-interest phase, get a non-earmarked loan (with quarterly annuity) from Check24, top up the $VWRL with it and repay the quarterly payments with dividends and equity. (I wouldn't, but it's no different to leveraging 😇) I would basically agree with his second argument that you don't have the discipline to keep the savings plans running like this and would rather take money away than from a property. You are simply condemned to "forced saving" because the loan installment comes at the end of the month. Many (like me) in the getquin community would NEVER touch their securities account to treat themselves to things like a car or something else. Some invest their Christmas money in a special repayment, some use it to buy shares or ETF units. 🎅 In the end, I think he's right somewhere and somewhere, of course, he's a bit biased towards his asset class. If I could make all the financial decisions of my life again, I wouldn't buy the apartment (even though I got a good deal here). I would start investing in the broadly diversified capital market with my first salary. Just let the savings plans run, if a little money comes in unexpectedly (Christmas bonus, tax refund etc.), bring that in too... With around 100k in the share portfolio, you can then think about buying a property - although I don't demonize open-ended real estate funds either, as I have zero effort and also a "relatively secure" return. But that's just my opinion - I also have friends who are ONLY invested in the housing market 🙂

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ginlos@ginlos

1Yr

@GreenWash I see it similarly to you. All the people I know who are invested in real estate. Have several properties and are not alone. Almost every property has had to be renovated/modernized and has often doubled the cost of the property. In my experience, real estate has a higher entry cost than stocks/ETF's. In the end, everyone has to decide for themselves where to invest their money.

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Daniel@NeotheHacker

1Yr

Thank you! Sounds interesting and I'll listen to it as soon as possible as I need a motivational boost for my own objects. They are a lot of work. 😅 So nothing passive, as has always been said.

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

1Yr

@NeotheHacker I have deliberately invested in new builds so that I can plan for the next few years, or rather have no planned expenses. I've been lucky with the tenants so far, I see them once a year when I inspect the apartment as part of the billing process. But yes, compared to B&H there is of course a bit more effort. And it's only the quarterly UVA report, but I enjoy optimizing the taxes 😁

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Kevin E.@KevinE

1Yr

@NeotheHacker The issue of "people" is exactly the reason why I'm not interested in real estate. I would only rent out parking spaces, preferably on gravel, where nobody complains about a pothole or something. I know a lot of landlords, and they all have a lot of work to do with their tenants. I wouldn't have the time for that on top of my job, let alone the desire. Sure, the FK can be a booster, but for me personally, I'm afraid it would be the way to the loony bin 😄

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NiMe@NiMe

1Yr

tl;dw can you briefly write down the arguments?

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

1Yr

@NiMe really now 😂🚀 You have bent over many times in 2023 for ua a cent and invested minutes for the corresponding documentary, and now you are 5min tl:dw😭 I have already built ahead for tl:dw and entered the timestamp 17:10 and watch the tip at double speed 😅😝🫣

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NiMe@NiMe

1Yr

@TomTurboInvest You're right, I'm just lazy 👍🏻

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BoersePG@BoersePG

1Yr

In which area are you invested? Would you be interested in exchanging ideas?

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

1Yr

@BoersePG Tirol

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PietAT@Petzi-Port

1Yr

@TomTurboInvest May I ask what criteria you use to buy? Qm? Location?

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

1Yr

@Petzi-Port Location near me max. 35km away, good transport connections (public transport), up to approx. 50m2, as small apartments are easy to rent... so far only new construction to have calculable costs. investor model, i.e. entitled to input tax deduction

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PietAT@Petzi-Port

1Yr

@TomTurboInvest thanks, have you tried older apartments where you had to repair a few things?

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

1Yr

@Petzi-Port not yet - I have deliberately looked for new builds and residential complexes that are managed by a property management company, including a janitor. Then it's more or less a "passive" investment - i.e. "only" looking for tenants, reporting the UVA every quarter and agreeing the statement with the tenant once a year (prepared by the property management company). I mean, if you're fit as a craftsman yourself or have a good network of craftsmen and enjoy doing it, then you can still boost the return, buy old stock cheaply, improve it, etc... but then it's a quasi different business model or no longer passive - you're then a part-time janitor.

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PietAT@Petzi-Port

1Yr

@TomTurboInvest ok thanks for the info, i need to start with old stock so new build projects are certainly over my budget Do you buy near big cities?

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

1Yr

@Petzi-Port 🥹We don't have any big cities 😂 but as I wrote, I consciously buy in locations with good connections, e.g. train station / highway. In the end, it's always a TCO consideration, new construction doesn't have to be expensive... especially when I look in our area, some people call up prices for 20-30 year old apartments like for new construction, and they always find a d****** Dutch or German who buys it. It's just where others go on vacation...

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

1Yr

@BoersePG what area are you traveling in! Also in the west of AT?

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PietAT@Petzi-Port

1Yr

@TomTurboInvest ok thank you, we don't have many big cities in austria, are you right, do you also look at factors like emigration? is there anywhere else to talk to you other than in the comment function?:)

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BoersePG@BoersePG

1Yr

@TomTurboInvest No, I am traveling in the east and southeast, where the yields are really bad and the purchase price for old and new buildings is extremely expensive. I'm really looking for real estate at the moment, including properties that can be upgraded. There's just a lot of building going on here. What kind of returns are you getting on your investment properties? Are you "buying in" or are you investing in an entire apartment?

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View all 5 further answers

Smudo@Smudeo

1Yr

Thanks, I've bookmarked it for the sauna

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Sandy the Squirrel@Esperanza

1Yr

When did you buy them and are the prices good for the time?

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Vik@Vik1337

1Yr

I have listened to this and I think it is far too positive. I regularly look at house prices and see nothing of any return.

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

1Yr

@Vik1337 Do you already have apartments? I am very satisfied with the return on my apartments.

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Der Boss@Bosshaft

1Yr

I see it differently. With real estate, I have repairs, loss of rent and have to deal with various other things. ETFs simply run

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

1Yr

@Bosshaft When it comes to passive investing, an ETF is the means to an end, no question about it. But from a certain amount of capital, there is no alternative to real estate in my opinion... Personally, I don't know anyone with the corresponding capital who is not invested in real estate. I don't understand the sometimes negative attitude towards real estate, but the marketing machinery for the billion-dollar "ETF" business has done a good job. Once the often young generation has been in the doldrums for more than 10 years, and then perhaps life intervenes at the same time - i.e. capital is needed for family and co, then the disadvantages of "only" equity ETFs will become apparent - you just ride passively into all the depths, especially with B&H.

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Der Boss@Bosshaft

1Yr

@TomTurboInvest well, I'm a qualified real estate agent and am currently studying to become a business administrator. Before I knew about shares, I thought real estate was the best way to invest, but as I said before, it's a lot of work. You also still have running costs that can't all be passed on to the tenants and if you have an annoying tenant, you only have problems and all this just so that you have cash flow in 20 years. So since I've known about shares, my choice is more in the stock market. It's better to split 300k between dividend-bearing securities and have a regular income 🤷‍♂️

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

1Yr

@Bosshaft The asset mix is always important, just as 100% real estate is nothing, in my opinion 100% equities are also nothing. And it always depends on the age and the corresponding investment horizon. Generally speaking, however, there is no such thing as "the best", it must always be seen "in relation to..." (growth, income, value retention and risk, etc...). And every asset class has certain costs, in the case of ETFs these are fees, and in the case of real estate certain costs that cannot be allocated. I don't know the situation in DE, in AT most costs are apportionable, at least on the free rental market. Well, and with cash flow it always depends on the setup, only in 20 years would be nothing for me either, then I wouldn't buy real estate either, fortunately that's not the case with my setup. PS: about regular income with dividends - let's take the popular value here $BATS - yes, great income, but it may not compensate for the loss in value...

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