Buying shares with credit?! - A bold step into investing

16H

@TradingHase I hear you, of course it works. Even if Amazon is lower in 2026, I still have time to hold on.

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Jarod@TradingHase

16H

@Therapeut Keep your fingers crossed in any case

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16H

@TradingHase danke

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Alpalaka@Alpalaka

16H

I only invest money that I have.

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16H

@Alpalaka yes, you need eggs for more

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Yoshika 🦋.@Yoshika

16H

@Therapeut
...and constant appointments with the urologist.

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Chris@Multibagger

16H

I use the securities loans at Consors and Flatex. The limit is variable and is up to 60% depending on the share. The interest rate is currently 7.5%, which is cheaper than most banks, and I always have the equivalent value in my securities account. The only risk. If there is a crash, I can be asked to sell shares to repay the loan. And I only use the loan for further share purchases and not for derivatives. That's why I have separated the securities accounts.

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16H

@Multibagger sounds interesting too, thanks for the info

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Cekay@CMustermann

15H

Phew, but why the credit? At Scalable you currently get up to 100K for 4.99%. I use that

Incidentally, I have much less of a problem with this than people are saying here. With your portfolio, that's just 10% leverage - that's perfectly fine. In a country where it would be totally normal to go into debt by several 100% for a house, the reactions seem very exaggerated.

Only the extremely high interest rates on loans repel me. I pay half as much for my €10,000 deposit loan.

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14H

@CMustermann had no Scalable, and because the interest rates are not fixed
I actually "only" pay a little over 5%
It's 10% on the year at 10k but with each payment the interest gets less, so at 10k I pay 580€ interest, 5.8..%

Yes, I think in Germany people just like to be safe and don't like to risk anything or try something new

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Max@MaxtheCat

16H

Very brave, but I think it's good. Also because 10K is still manageable. The only thing I would do differently is the choice of stock. I'm a big amazon fan, but why not invest in nvidia, broadcom or similar? - sure, amazon is reasonably safe, but with the dip, were
dip the others also had greater opportunities.
But otherwise really interesting, I think it's cool.

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16H

@MaxtheCat Thank you😁 It's always difficult to decide in such uncertain situations.
That's why I opted for Amazon, for what I felt was "more" security

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Marcie@Marcie

16H

But 10% interest with your income and collateral is already fat. I took one for 5.x at the same time.

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15H

@Marcie Exactly 10%, because I pay it in one year the interest is halved
I.e. through each payment are the sum, so in the end it is about 5...%

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16H

Yes, a decision with balls, indeed. But not an option for me. Two problems in one share. One is the share itself and the other is the problem of not being able to pay the loan! As a self-employed person, I have also invested in my company with loans from time to time and this also has tax advantages in some cases. But I only did that in the first 10 years and it's not necessarily comparable. After that, I only invested/spent the money I had earned. There comes a point when you're just happy that you don't have any more debt. Even if it can be untactical at times, I for one sleep better then. It's probably also down to age ;-) The wild times are over.

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15H

@schlimmschlimm thanks Frank for your feedback, I'm going to be self-employed as an occupational therapist next year, what do you do?

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15H

@Therapeut With pleasure! At the moment I'm in a quiet phase, so I'm doing virtually nothing at the moment :-) After 30 years of self-employment, I have liquidated my company and am currently in the process of investing a part of it here and familiarizing myself with the topic of investing. Unfortunately, I've neglected it for the last 20 years. I'm doing a bit of renovation work on my house and my partner's house. I currently live off my rental income and also want to build up a bit of a dividend portfolio. I did IT for 10 years, mainly hardware, networking, MSCP training and switched to printer consumables in 2002 after hardware became increasingly difficult. At that time it was due to Aldi PCs and Media Markt. That didn't exist in the 90s when I started. As I said, I had a wholesale business for printer accessories for the last 23 years. But we also recycled the empty cartridges ourselves, i.e. the well-known refilled cartridges that you've probably heard of, only industrially remanufactured, e.g. with special filling machines. Of course, we have also sold original cartridges from HP, Epson, Samsung etc.. It's part of being a wholesaler that you also sell OEM goods. We were a full-range supplier. We had around 5,000 items in our range. We had two online stores, one for dealers and one for commercial end customers etc. etc. I'm now 56 and looking for new challenges, but only small ones ;-)

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15H

@Therapeut Of course, I wish you every success with your planned self-employment. It's definitely a good decision at 25. My advice, just be careful with debts, the pressure can become endless.

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15H

@schlimmschlimm That sounds very exciting Frank, it sounds like you've made the right decision in life💪 Of course, take things slowly, take more care of your health and also try to invest in a long, healthy life. And enjoy every day

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15H

@schlimmschlimm thank you very much, yes I have enough pressure already😂 especially too many thoughts, but it will work out, I am extremely motivated and have been working half my life towards it.

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15H

@Therapeut Absolutely! Exactly that! As they always say here "that's the way"

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14H

@Therapeut I can well imagine that, it's not getting any easier at the moment. I didn't have many of your worries in the 90s. But being a therapist is a great profession. I've always enjoyed working with people, which was a clear advantage in IT. But keep at it, you won't be able to avoid the difficult times. But my saying has always been "Doubt in victory is no excuse for giving up the fight". With this in mind...go for it!

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14H

@schlimmschlimm this is the way😂
The saying comes from the series Mandalorien (StarWars)

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14H

@schlimmschlimm thanks for the quote 👍

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Metis@Metis

16H

I wouldn't do that under any circumstances. But this could also be due to my rather low income, which is about the same as the €2,200 savings rate you mentioned.

I'd rather pay my comparatively low savings installment of ~€400 directly into securities than pay off a loan with interest. 😅

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Kate🦋@Iwamoto

16H

Theoretically, you could correct the cost price of your Amazon shares here on Gq to €157.48. (I only saw the S&P500 shares later and was too lazy to calculate it again) then you would have taken the credit costs/interest into account. However, the monthly installment also incurs opportunity costs, as this gnaws at your savings rate. Nevertheless, a very good purchase. I wish you every success with it.

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16H

@Iwamoto Good idea, yes opportunity costs of €50 per month are kept within reasonable limits😁

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Kate🦋@Iwamoto

15H

@Therapeut I had the €881 in mind as an opportunity cost 🤭

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15H

@Iwamoto oh well, yes, you can see it that way too😂

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Ricola@Roccola601

16H

It can go well, but it can also go very wrong. For me, it has nothing to do with "having balls". But at €10,000, the sum isn't so high that it would be completely ruined if it doesn't work out.

In a different market phase, it wouldn't let me sleep peacefully.
I'm glad it's working out for you! 🙃

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Name M.@userc818a6f2df6247c9

16H

@Roccola601 the eggs are related to being "brave", daring to do something. In Germany, people like to keep a low profile and seek security.
Thank you👋

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Nom@user28461

15H

If this sets a precedent, a crash is inevitable. Not everyone has the right nerves for this.

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15H

Are your fingernails itching to do it again?
I wouldn't do it for shares. The phase back then with the yellow man was unpredictable. He still is. Keep your fingers crossed that the trade works out, minus taxes....
My loan is for an apartment. Even that involves risk if the tenant doesn't pay....

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BockaufDividenden@BockaufDividenden

15H

@userc818a6f2df6247c9
I found the idea interesting, but I won't be doing it in the near future because I'm going to start my own business next year.
I'll probably take out a loan, but I'll invest the money in myself

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15H

I think this is a very legitimate and good idea! I did a similar thing half a year ago, but more to get dividend stocks/BDCs/REITs from it. Even for 10000€, the additional dividends + the dividends from my other portfolio pay off the loan installment by themselves. I've already been able to pay it off faster with more surplus dividends. When the loan is through, I'll do it again.

So far the calculation has worked out, the price increases + dividends are more than the loan amount plus interest.

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View all 3 further answers

stocker_1862@stocker_1862

15H

I thought about it twice at the beginning of 2022 with Rheinmetall and at the beginning of the corona period with a DAX value below 10000 I think. Decided against it In my case, I couldn't have afforded to fail and therefore didn't do it. In hindsight, that was a mistake.

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Shiya@Shiya

14H

I also took out a loan during the crash and will pay it back within a year. It has paid off completely.
Unfortunately, I now have to wait another six months before I can invest properly again.

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Sithz@Sithz

13H

And where is the total portfolio of 100k? 😃 I don't really believe you. 10k is not that significant with 100k

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JML@JohannaMichel-Leitner

Olli@Olli68

12H

Everything done right 👍

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mein_depot@seppl6431

11H

I currently have a salary advance for 0% interest of €7,000, which I gradually invested in the market two years ago.

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10H

I wouldn't do that on principle. Shares are inherently risky, so I think clear limits are necessary. Otherwise all inhibitions will fall at some point and then you'll quickly find yourself in the rue de la gack. For me, the limits would be reached when I can no longer finance shares with cash. But I hope (and think) that it will work out for you.

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PaulPK@PaulPK

Has anyone tried the Scalable Prime+ for 3.24% p.a. (variable)? That is of course a great leverage...

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Floriano@FlorianoPerlini

Brother everything top but NOT THESE INTEREST RATES! At Scalable you would have gotten it much cheaper and also on the open market! Who ripped you off?!
It should have said something about 5.xx%

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Gordon@GordonGecko_official

The amount and term are manageable, as is the risk, since it's not even half of the savings installment - so for me at least, it's a positive assessment of the whole thing. Personally, I find a car loan CONSIDERABLY more questionable, because it only ever leads to a loss in value and the interest rate is often even worse... When investing in the stock market, there is at least the chance of making a profit.

I'd have to lie if I said that I hadn't gone through the procedure a few times myself, at least in my head, and it's still not off the table^^

Good luck with your self-experiment, I'm sure that the "risk" will pay off, after all, we're not talking about a small, overvalued AI clique...

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Holger L.@WANTEDBYSONIC

Well, to be honest, my purchase in my company also cost me a lot of money that I didn't have and an S&P 500 is definitely more diversified 😂 you have my blessing 😅

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ClaraLvt@ClaraLvt

15H

Why not use options?

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Tim@Tacticus

14H

Interesting - two questions:
Why the bet on a single stock instead of the MSCI USA or MSCI ACWI?
Why not a Lombard loan at an interest rate of 5.02%? Is possible up to max. 100,000 up to 70 % loan-to-value depending on the asset class.

Bonus: The loan is even freely available and is not stored in the Schufa!

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Alfredo Arcos Alegría@Alfre2

10H

Rather buy funds it’s less risky and take a better loan, 10% interest rate it’s too much go find other for 4-5%

Under that circumstances with luck you will make an additional 5-6% on the loan

Buying shares it’s more risky and 10% interest rate it’s too much and only 12 months to give it back it’s too short 🤷‍♂️

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Markus@KohleKompass

Interesting.
But I would first invest my call money before taking out a loan to trade.

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GAR1986@GAR1986

LOL, why not use a Lombard at your bank? It should be much cheaper.

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