6D·

Financial freedom at 18

Hello everyone. Apart from my actual custody account, I have set up a custody account for my son over the last few years. The savings rate there is around 5-6k pa. Since his birth

The Etf is only fed by dividends.

The aim is to pick companies that will survive and be profitable in another 14 years. Some future bets are also in there like palantir and drone plays.

Would you change the selection and put everything into an etf? So far I have achieved a pretty good outperformance with the portfolio.

17Positions

€39,240.79

72.04%

121

66 Comments

Bullnbear@Bullnbear

Brutally honest. I thought if you "only" manage to invest your child benefit, you're already in the top 10%. Strong performance, honestly. A little more Bitcoin would certainly be the cherry on the cake. 🤭

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

@Bullnbear Yes, cryptos are not included at all as I have not yet found a provider where this works as a child custody account. But to be honest, I haven't really looked into the transfer of my own bitcoins or cryptos in general. Maybe @stefan_21 knows something about this?

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Stefan21@stefan_21

@Hotte1909 I don't actually know of any provider where you can keep a kind of Bitcoin child custody account.
One option would of course be to set up a savings plan in your name and then give him the wallet on his 18th birthday.
However, gift tax could then be incurred if it is above the tax-free amount

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Peníze Maker@penize

In this case I would honestly say "fuck tax". The simplest option is to give him 12 words on a piece paper when you feel like transfering the wallet to him. You can send some BTC to it automatically each month.

...or each day, if you feel to do super DCA. 🚀 Czechs have a service called stosuj.cz, but I can imagine it existing on other exchanges as well. :)

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Karbi@Karbi_maker_214

Patrick simply maker for the whole family ❤️

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Christoph@user2310fa5ed7134bd3

@Bullnbear Everything in one ETF. Not to complicate things. The little extra return if you actually outperform the market is not worth it in my opinion. The child has to be able to handle the portfolio in the end and may not have the same passion as dad. Incidentally, this is also the disadvantage of a large children's portfolio - you don't know what they will end up doing with it.

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Bullnbear@Bullnbear

@user2310fa5ed7134bd3 In principle, I would agree with you, but why not use stock market knowledge instead of being satisfied with 7%? For me it's the Nasdaq 100 & Bitcoin 80/20 ratio, 15 years still savings phase. Come on ... treat yourself 🤭

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Christoph@user2310fa5ed7134bd3

@Bullnbear Actually wanted to answer one level above 😅
I am pro Bitcoin myself and am in ETFs/BTC in a 60/40 ratio. The portfolio is over a million in size and in combination with two children I have to say that I have lost the desire for "elaborate". I now simply buy a BTC ETN every month and that's it 🤷

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Daniel@Bidax

@Hotte1909 Hey Patrick! First of all, huge respect. I'm also trying to convince my daughters to do more than just save with Raiffeisen. So far without success.

On the subject of crypto. I'm a wimp, so I've only bought the $BTC1. Maybe it would be something for the children's portfolio. Have a look at it. I would be delighted to receive feedback.

Greetings Daniel

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Bierchen C.@GuenDolf

Your son has just as big a portfolio at 4 as I do at 27... It's just great that you're doing this. :)

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

Yes, child benefit + Christmas/birthday money goes into the portfolio.

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alphawolf@alphawolf

Then he can count himself lucky to get so much Christmas and birthday money 💪🏼 the little one will make eyes at 18 🥳

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

Hello dear, is this for the little man in the hat?
A really great idea, I'm sure he likes the Simpsons too.
So maybe it would be an idea to pick out the best positions for him from the @Simpson children's ETF.

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

@Tenbagger2024 he actually doesn't know the Simpsons at all 😀 yes, he is the little hat wearer, but now he prefers caps 😉

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Hendan@Hendan

Your son has a bigger portfolio than me 🥲
Well done!

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Horsti@Horstiiii

At least one share from $BVB belongs in the portfolio. ☺️

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

@Horstiiii The boy should not be spoiled 😀

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Das Portfoliopferd@Portfoliopferd

@Hotte1909 St. Pauli cooperative shares

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Dario1@Dario1

Simply wonderful

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Alexander_Bitcoin@Alexander_Bitcoin

Looks very good and well thought out, I must say.

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Wiktor_06@Wiktor_06

Poah respect, it's really great that you're already thinking so long-term.

But I would teach him to build up his portfolio himself in future. So that he recognizes and appreciates the value himself 🚀

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

@Wiktor_06 yes, of course he should manage it himself at some point. But seriously, if I ask a 4-year-old what shares he wants, I don't think he'll come up with anything clever.

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S.A.U.@SAUgut77

MEGA MEGA and carry on as before 👍👍👍👍

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NichtRelevant@NichtRelevant

What you are doing is great and absolutely right.

It still scares me a little, though, because I'm lagging far behind my kids in terms of the amount of the deposit.

I still have a few things to do in the property sector over the next few years to catch up.

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Chris@Multibagger

Even at the risk of getting a beating for this opinion, I would never invest everything in ETFs. Why? Your last sentence says it all!

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

@Multibagger I fully agree with you. I'm not really a big ETF fan anyway. That's probably because there were no ETFs when I started investing. At least not like today. There were managed funds but that was pretty much it

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

@Hotte1909
The project is called "We are building our own children's ETF" Suggestions welcome.
Suggest $CSU.

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

@Tenbagger2024 I've had my eye on Constel for some time but for my own portfolio. However, I still find them very expensive at the moment

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BockaufDividenden@BockaufDividenden

May I ask where you created this custody account for your little one? Surely as a junior custody account. What about the dividends and reinvestments? Because I always look when I see the high fees that ING, for example, wants to charge when you reinvest the dividends. That's why I only have accumulating ETFs for my child.

I would also like the custody account to develop its own cash flow when I hand it over at the age of 18, but not with the high fees at ING... :(

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

@BockaufDividenden I collect the dividends and invest them once a year. The custody account is with Volksbank. So probably even more expensive than with ING

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BockaufDividenden@BockaufDividenden

@Hotte1909 oahh oh shit even more expensive! But I can understand it, you want to hand over a dividend portfolio directly so that the little one can also understand what is possible! Fortunately, there's the non-investment certificate for children related to taxes...

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

@BockaufDividenden exactly. That applies up to around 10k. Yes, that's about 2€ because I let it run in as a savings plan, so it's also manageable. Otherwise just 16€

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Stuttgarter81@Moneymoney

@BockaufDividenden I'm with ING and am actually very satisfied. ...you can invest the dividends in an additional ETF savings plan free of charge. Accumulating ETFs really don't make sense for children, as they also have a savings allowance of 1000 euros p.a. and don't pay any taxes on income. You only need to keep an eye on health insurance from annual returns of 7,000 euros p.a., as the children then have to take out their own health insurance. Best regards 🖖

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BockaufDividenden@BockaufDividenden

@Moneymoney @Hotte1909 Hey thanks for your information about reinvesting dividends in the savings plan, I already knew that, I also have a junior custody account with ING.

I have to disagree a bit with the view that accumulating ETFs don't make sense, because I can also sell the ETFs if they are up €3000, for example, and buy in again directly and thus "secure" the shares. The problem with this is of course that there are then purchase costs, so you could also buy the ETFs again with a savings plan, e.g. €2500 per month or something. Because currently there are only ETFs in the junior custody account.

Compared to the dividends, however, I don't lose any return on the junior custody account due to the withholding tax, which is lost.

In this respect, in my opinion, you can still use accumulating ETFs and keep securing units within the €12,000 total tax-free allowance. Later, when the child is around 15 years old, you can switch to dividend ETFs/shares within the tax-free amount so that he or she receives cash flow directly.

How do you see this? Am I missing something here? Or what would be best for the child?

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Stuttgarter81@Moneymoney

@BockaufDividenden One problem I have when selling is that the buy prices do not rise linearly. Instead, I sometimes buy at higher prices and then again at lower prices. It's always the first in first out principle. I had the problem that I had realized over 7500 euros in profits and therefore would have needed my own private health insurance. ...this is much easier with dividend income. ...the important thing with accumulating etfs is that you also realize profits annually and don't let them run - the tax-free amounts cannot be postponed until the end of the year - that's why I think it's better to work with distributing etfs. Best regards 🖖

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BockaufDividenden@BockaufDividenden

@Moneymoney Hey, in my opinion, the FiFo principle doesn't matter at first. If I have 100 shares in an ETF and sell them in total, e.g. for X+3,000€ price gain and then invest X+3,000€ in this ETF again one day later, I have "secured my shares" and repeat this every year. I keep a close eye on all portfolios anyway, if only because everything is entered and tracked manually in Portfolio Performance.

Whether I sell/buy dividends or ETFs as a whole makes no difference, does it? Except that I save the withholding tax on dividends (let's assume foreign, not German shares). The advance lump sum is also covered by the tax-free amount of around €12,000 anyway.

I completely agree with you about the health insurance for profits above €7,500 - but we're nowhere near that with the junior portfolio. There's only about 15k in it.

Am I missing something here, except that you can clearly get a higher return with individual shares than with ETFs, but it's only for the junior as a permanent savings plan.

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Stuttgarter81@Moneymoney

@BockaufDividenden if you sell the entire position, then of course it is easier to handle and you are apparently better organized than I am. 👍🏻...with individual stocks you have greater opportunities and of course greater risks. With a world ETF portfolio you just get the market return, which is enough for me. Our junior portfolio is a bit bigger because I like to save taxes. You just have to be aware that it's a gift to the child and that the child will have to deal with the sum when they turn 18. I also hope that this doesn't come back to bite us at some point 🍀 best regards 🖖

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BockaufDividenden@BockaufDividenden

@Moneymoney That's the crucial point where I want to teach our child how to handle money in a playful way as early as possible. I still have years to think about exactly how to do this, the child is still small anyway.

For the junior portfolio, we have chosen a really classic approach with an all-world ETF $FWRG with one-off payments and a savings plan in the MSCI World $IWDA and Nasdaq $CSNDX.

Yes, there are overlaps, but it's not quite so bad.
Maybe I'd rather kick out the Nasdaq and go straight for the $IUIT, I'll have to think about that.

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Gehebeltes-EFH@Gehebeltes-EFH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NTKh_hLefQ

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CryptoCactus@CryptoCactus

Or stark!

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Ph1l1pp@Ph1l1pp

All in S&P500

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WegNaarWelvaart@WegNaarWelvaart1

Sick!

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Walter S.@Roots

I think the depot is good...
The idea anyway...
Regards

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Hodlinvestor@Hodlinvestor

I think that's good. Wouldn't change anything, who knows what the world will look like in 15 years?

I have also set up 2 custody accounts for the kids. Savings rate 800 per child 50% etf, 40% individual shares, 10% btc-etn.

But they are in my name... Trust is good, control is better! (I don't care about tax advantages)

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Felix@Shareholder

So....Respect. I would continue like this. :)
Looks solid ^^

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Elsa E.@EpsEra

I think what you're doing is great. We also recently started saving for our children via TR Kinderdepots with $VWCE. Big respect for that. Our own portfolio is currently almost 6 times smaller than your son's. 😅

I found what I read in one of the comments particularly strong. That you can pass on the knowledge to your son later on and let him invest himself under supervision. He will definitely thank you for it forever, financially and personally 🤑👏

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

@EpsEra Financial education is so important and is unfortunately not covered at all in schools.
I was taught early on that you have to work for your money but that money can also work for you. I am very grateful for that.

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Testo-Investor@Testo-Investor

You know what I write! Please add thanks :-)

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

@Testo-Investor Yes, it's already written above. Theoretically it would work via Tr, but I don't want that.

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Testo-Investor@Testo-Investor

@Hotte1909 I think I'll see you in September. I'll post something later and I think you'll come one day too and then we can talk about how to do it properly

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Stevoo@Stevoo13

Great initiative... I do something similar for my 7 and 11 year old daughters, but I keep it simple, 100% S&P 500, and the returns are similar to yours over 4 years.

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Diogo C.@Cordas

You're doing an amazing job investing in your son's future! He's truly lucky, even i didn’t start that early (2023) ! The best part is, as he grows, he’ll realize how fortunate he is to have a dad teaching him about this world of investments. I really wish I had that kind of education from the start! 👏

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Alfred@Alfred16

Stark

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Daxhund@Daxhund

Didn't you call droneshield a chip shop?

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

@Daxhund quite possible. It depends on the context. But I was mostly pro DroneShield. I think the term "chip shop" was used last year when the share price fell, but I always said that I saw potential there. But I had rather expected them to be bought up because of their size. I've traded them several times. And you can also take a bit of risk.

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Daniel@Bidax

To answer your question. Leave it as it is. You are very successful. Hats off!

I myself save significantly more in a very diversified ETF portfolio. (50% US, 20% emerging markets, 25% Europe, 5% Japan; 50% large cap, 30% mid cap and 20% small cap). I don't dare to go all in on individual stocks.

@Simpson But his "HOMER ETF" has triggered me so much that I am going to buy a small selection of shares in a savings plan. I have tried to look for future-proof stocks and fairly or undervalued stocks. But above all free cash flow and good analyst valuations.

I found these quite interesting.
- FANUC $6954

But in the end you don't need any advice because you are - demonstrably - doing everything more than right. Chapeau again at this point.

Regards
Daniel

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View all 5 further answers

Michael G.@Amadriendel

Definitely too much America... in my opinion...

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aminemeskni@Aminmeskini

A great depot my dear. Your child can only be happy to have you. I do exactly the same for my children. Which Brocker do you have the deposit with?

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market_sorcerer_umarr@market_sorcerer_umarr

Respect, I don't think the long-term approach with individual stocks is entirely wrong, keep it up 👍🏻

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Lehrer M.@Lehrermitaktien

I would replace Sony with Meta, even though they are a bit too expensive right now.

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