2Mon
I don't have any Bitcoin and consider most cryptos to be scams or gambling products, but the comparison with a Ponzi scheme also seemed rather strange to me. Sure, you need enough people to fundamentally "participate" in something like this, but not like a Ponzi scheme. You don't gain (directly) from others buying coins and/or generating new customers (new buyers). In a Ponzi scheme, most of the money is earned through commission or participation in the payments of others. Only the top layers of the system win. This is not the case with Bitcoin. Of course, you win or lose with the fluctuations in the value of the coin. But anyone can basically make a profit if they buy at exactly the right time.
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•2Mon
FunFact: I could now pay for my dream printer with Bitcoin at my favorite 3D printer manufacturer. 🥲
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•@Metis For the actual function, you always need new users, as the transfer unit increases daily and you need a new user to buy yours in order to carry out the actual trade. How else is the coffee shop that sells you a cup of coffee for Bitcoin supposed to brew your next coffee tomorrow? Without buying more coffee? And Bitcoin would have to be a recognized currency by the bank (which it is not) or I need someone to exchange it for a recognized one.
In a Ponzi scheme, all levels earn money until it collapses. Then those who still hold the product lose. And with Bitcoin there is this pyramid at the bottom. The first mined Bitcoins for cents, the current ones for 60K. Even if the price continues to rise (which it may), the old users will benefit the most. This also has nothing to do with the fluctuations.
Whether commission or more expensive resale does not really matter to my knowledge. Just like there are enough scams with "collector's items" that you just have to hold on to long enough.
In a Ponzi scheme, all levels earn money until it collapses. Then those who still hold the product lose. And with Bitcoin there is this pyramid at the bottom. The first mined Bitcoins for cents, the current ones for 60K. Even if the price continues to rise (which it may), the old users will benefit the most. This also has nothing to do with the fluctuations.
Whether commission or more expensive resale does not really matter to my knowledge. Just like there are enough scams with "collector's items" that you just have to hold on to long enough.
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2Mon
@Madhatter5566 Why do you need new users all the time? For the euro or other currencies, you only need enough existing users and exchange rates between the currencies.
It's a means of bartering like any other. Whether shells, stones or dollars/euros or even Bitcoin.
It's a means of bartering like any other. Whether shells, stones or dollars/euros or even Bitcoin.
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@Madhatter5566 As I wrote in the article, you don't need that :)
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@Metis Yes and no. It would work if the trade in goods were in full swing, but then you wouldn't need Bitcoin at all and could use an official currency instead
Let's go back to the use case: Cafe sells you coffee for Bitcoin. How does the cafe get new coffee to sell again tomorrow? By storing the Bitcoins for all eternity? Then it lives off the substance. Nonsense, it has to find someone to exchange the Bitcoin back into a currency. One that it can use to buy more coffee. Because Bitcoin is simply not an enforced currency. So you need someone to take the Bitcoin you have taken. This is then a new user who needs the Bitcoin for a transfer. And the miners who maintain the network also need new users every day, because they pay for the electricity and the hardware. Otherwise bitcoin would be dead immediately, as Stefan writes. The miner himself has nothing from bitcoin itself.
Now the system would collapse immediately if the cafe could not find a buyer. The loss of trust is slowed down by the price increase making it attractive to hold. However, if you don't trade the Bitcoin away, you first finance this from your company's assets. Which is why Bitcoin has somehow never caught on.
Let's go back to the use case: Cafe sells you coffee for Bitcoin. How does the cafe get new coffee to sell again tomorrow? By storing the Bitcoins for all eternity? Then it lives off the substance. Nonsense, it has to find someone to exchange the Bitcoin back into a currency. One that it can use to buy more coffee. Because Bitcoin is simply not an enforced currency. So you need someone to take the Bitcoin you have taken. This is then a new user who needs the Bitcoin for a transfer. And the miners who maintain the network also need new users every day, because they pay for the electricity and the hardware. Otherwise bitcoin would be dead immediately, as Stefan writes. The miner himself has nothing from bitcoin itself.
Now the system would collapse immediately if the cafe could not find a buyer. The loss of trust is slowed down by the price increase making it attractive to hold. However, if you don't trade the Bitcoin away, you first finance this from your company's assets. Which is why Bitcoin has somehow never caught on.
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@stefan_21 Then you hold a transfer unit and have not completed the exchange. And if no one buys it from you at some point, the Bitcoin is worthless. Then you have given someone a commodity in exchange for Bitcoin for nothing. An object of exchange lives from being exchanged at some point. If it is not, Bitcoin would be dead tomorrow. How else is a miner supposed to pay his bill or buy a coffee at a cafe if there is no one to buy the Bitcoin? Weird.
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2Mon
@Madhatter5566 Well, but why should you only rely on official state currencies? That's part of the idea behind Bitcoin, that it doesn't run via the state. After how many wars did real assets suddenly become a currency? After just about every one where you couldn't get anything for the state currency. And this currency is usually not even worth the paper it was printed on. Btw, you basically don't need a new user if you can also pay your coffee bean supplier with Bitcoin. Otherwise, you always have the option of exchanging the Bitcoin back into a state currency. Or just exchange the required price in official currency.
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@Metis Bitcoin would have to be a currency and generally recognized. Yes. If it were possible for one currency to be used all over the world, that would be great. But it isn't, because there are political and national borders and economic areas. If this full economic area existed, there would also be a global currency and Bitcoin would be pure shadow money.
In paper terms, Bitcoin is there to circumvent these borders that now exist. Yes, it only works half-heartedly, because the goods I want to buy have a Pesky border on the way to me that would intercept my Putin oil or Bolivian coke.
Yes and no, you may have the option here. Try exchanging for dollars in Russia. And the exchange requires someone to give you the money in exchange for the Bitcoin. This is the new user. The money doesn't just appear in your account. And the new user in turn needs an application for Bitcoin.
In paper terms, Bitcoin is there to circumvent these borders that now exist. Yes, it only works half-heartedly, because the goods I want to buy have a Pesky border on the way to me that would intercept my Putin oil or Bolivian coke.
Yes and no, you may have the option here. Try exchanging for dollars in Russia. And the exchange requires someone to give you the money in exchange for the Bitcoin. This is the new user. The money doesn't just appear in your account. And the new user in turn needs an application for Bitcoin.
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2Mon
@Madhatter5566 Yes, your trading partner must recognize the currency. But in your example with Russia and the US dollar, he also has to recognize it. But does the US dollar have no further value just because it cannot be used to pay in Russia? No. Bitcoin is not yet a globally recognized currency. But it's not completely out of the question that this won't happen. Precisely because more and more regular stores are already making it possible to pay with it. Every payment method and every payment processor such as Klarna or Paypal - or even the Visa card - started somewhere - and those who said that it would never catch on. (As has often been said about the Internet). And it is precisely the Internet that makes global success possible in the first place.
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@Metis Well, your trading partner gets a Bitcoin. This means that the exchange risk into his or another currency lies with him. If this is too high for him, he won't accept it. Which brings us back to the point that it's actually harmful if you can't find a new user.... Because you don't give away your goods in exchange for something you can't get rid of.
If Bitcoin were to solve this problem, it would make sense again.
But does that have any relevance at all for the actual private bitcoin investor? What do you care if you can send money to someone on Lake Baikal?
For the café around the corner, exchanging in Bitcoin beforehand is quite pointless. The energy costs for the transfer are also higher than a paper rag. The actual idea was the irreversible payment of things without intermediaries and anonymously. It actually has little to do with the use case as a daily currency. Especially not privately. I'm the fool who will never see the money again at best. See white paper on what the blockchain is actually supposed to do
Of course, nobody knows what the future holds. But I'm not really worried if Bitcoin turns the corner. For the transfer/exchange, what's written on the thing is irrelevant. At least I don't see any need for Fomo
If Bitcoin were to solve this problem, it would make sense again.
But does that have any relevance at all for the actual private bitcoin investor? What do you care if you can send money to someone on Lake Baikal?
For the café around the corner, exchanging in Bitcoin beforehand is quite pointless. The energy costs for the transfer are also higher than a paper rag. The actual idea was the irreversible payment of things without intermediaries and anonymously. It actually has little to do with the use case as a daily currency. Especially not privately. I'm the fool who will never see the money again at best. See white paper on what the blockchain is actually supposed to do
Of course, nobody knows what the future holds. But I'm not really worried if Bitcoin turns the corner. For the transfer/exchange, what's written on the thing is irrelevant. At least I don't see any need for Fomo
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