1Yr

@TomTurboInvest Hi. Thanks for your opinion. I'm not saying anything against that at all. That's why there are periods in which I invest in the existing alt coins. After this period and the coming bearish phase, BTC and ETH will remain constant in the portfolio, you could say. I don't trade, I just invest and I do so sensibly😂. But thanks for your opinion anyway. But I didn't buy BTC and ETH in the bull run, for example.

•

1Yr

@TomTurboInvest 2. what's wrong with my argument that BTC could be the currency of the future? Would you like to explain this to me? I look forward to a factual exchange. Greetings

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Björn@Kapital_Koala

1Yr

@TomTurboInvest Amen 🙏 💚

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Ludwig@vitellinho

1Yr

@PaulPDE I am invested in Bitcoin myself, but it is unlikely that it will be used as a currency and means of payment at some point.

Or how do you imagine paying with btc in a restaurant or at a kiosk? And why should I as a payer pay with Btc if I know that it could be worth more in 1 month? Then I'd rather pay with money. And why should I as a merchant accept BTC if it could lose a lot of value in 1 month, the merchant would also rather accept money.

BTC is and remains a digital and limited means of storing money.

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ThetaShort@ThetaShort

1Yr

@vitellinho So much bullshit in so few characters. Bitcoin is money. Deflationary money.

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Ludwig@vitellinho

1Yr

@ThetaShort Strange. It's been around for over 10 years and still hasn't caught on as a means of payment. Apparently everyone is not yet at your intellectual level 🙈

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1Yr

@vitellinho We are just at the beginning. At the very beginning. The last halving will be 2130 or so and I think we just finished the 4th halving.
We are just starting. Of course it takes time. It was the same with banknotes. Just wait and see

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1Yr

@vitellinho I'll reply to that🙏🙏

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PietAT@Petzi-Port

1Yr

@TomTurboInvest I completely agree with you, I started investing in crypto back in 2021 in the bull run and simply had 0 plan no profits taken rather lost almost everything🥲

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1Yr

@Petzi-Port How? You've lost everything? You can only win!
Or have you sold?

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1Yr

You won't get far here with a portfolio like that. We are mostly investors and your portfolio is simply a big gamble. The way you write is also extremely unsympathetic and preachy, which is why nobody wants to discuss it with you.

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1Yr

@Ayecaramba256 Hi how do I write. In my opinion I respond to comments very nicely, not like others have responded to me in the past. Yes my manner may also come from the fact that I have not received any argument against my strategy or even a good and informative discussion. Also, I should be listened to (no hate). I have explained my strategy and where is that gambling please? Just as you trust in FIAT, I trust in crypto, especially BTC. Am I not allowed to do that? Or maybe no one has an argument because no one responds to me, but writes a negative comment against me, but has no arguments and thus deprives me of the right to explain.

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1Yr

@Pauljj Well, as Turboinvest wrote. You think you're the greatest ever because you started right at the beginning of the bull market. But your way of investing is speculation. We are all interested in long-term wealth accumulation here. And as you write in your initial post. You convinced someone who criticized you --> that shows that you don't respect other opinions but try to impose yours. Some would call it resistant to advice.

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1Yr

@Ayecaramba256 Oh wow ok. Good to know that you see it that way. I didn't realize it myself. Then of course I'm sorry, even if I don't know what's so bad about convincing someone. I'm very interested in the long term, with BTC and other projects. Just in a different way to you. Can't I? And if I came across as a bit strange, then I'm sorry, but it's cool that you're so open with me. But I still don't have an argument for "gambling"?

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1Yr

@Pauljj If you want "criticism" and opinions on your portfolio, but you write that you convinced the only critic at the last roast, that only speaks for the fact that you are 100% convinced of your portfolio and don't want to accept any other opinions. I get the impression that you just wanted to post your portfolio so that other people could tell you how great your performance is. However, we are here for constructive exchange and therefore cannot do anything with such portfolios and especially with the text about them and what it shows

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1Yr

@Pauljj Gambling is perhaps the wrong word. At the moment, you are investing a lot in assets that may or may not be worth a lot at some point. The use case is not necessarily there yet and it will take some time. That's why, compared to profitable companies with a long history, it's less of an investment and more of a speculation on a new world. It can go well, but it can also go wrong. That's why I wouldn't bet everything on it if I were you, but only a certain proportion in your portfolio and that should be less than 30% (at least in the investment)

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1Yr

@Ayecaramba256 I'm also 100% up with crypto and you could then say mine. It's great why I don't put everything into crypto. But that would be far too risky for me, so I don't want crypto to make up more than 10% of my portfolio in the long term. Unfortunately, due to the good performance, the value is currently at 22%

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1Yr

@Ayecaramba256 Btw, I wrote "hopefully" and he hasn't answered me yet? Shall we talk about what convinced means?

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1Yr

@Ayecaramba256 @Ayecaramba256 Ok wow enough already😂. I don't know what you have against me all the time. My goal is to convince. But nobody has any arguments, unfortunately. I would be very excited about exciting discussions, which unfortunately I rarely get. Maybe that will change. But I reject your accusations. Greetings

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1Yr

@Pauljj I don't really care if you reject them. With every further post you only confirm them ;)

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Luke@Luke_B

1Yr

@Pauljj Ok wow you're really only convinced of cryptos and I have to agree with Ayecaramba, you come across as very arrogant at times. The fact is, there is currently no use case for cryptos other than money laundering. Of course, this may change at some point and you may be able to buy other things with it in the future. But how long until that happens and do you think that everyone will then use Btc etc. or prefer to stick with the old money? I don't even see the inflation proof argument, economists say that a base inflation of ~2% a year is better than none or deflation, but that also has a very complicated explanation that would be too long here, so I don't see why inflation would be completely dead after the introduction of Btc, in the days of the gold standard there was also inflation, it was just harder to control. But let's say it really does happen and everyone uses Btc, that doesn't make my shares in Apple worth less, there is still something material behind it that produces goods for people, I would just be able to sell the shares for bitcoin instead of eurons. So in that sense it's gambling, you're betting that the value of Btc will be higher in the future than it is today, without having a practical use case in the here and now, you're speculating that it will be different in the future. And only the crystal ball can tell us that

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Adel;.@tAdel

1Yr

Hi Mr Dunning Kruger:)

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1Yr

@tAdel Hi Adel. Why are you calling me that? Do you want to stand by your position and explain it? I would be very happy to enter into a factual exchange with you. Greetings

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1Yr

@Pauljj Hi can you explain it to me?

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1Yr

@tAdel ?

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Sauerland_Investor@Sauerland_Investor

1Yr

@tAdel ?

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1Yr

Arrogance has already cost many people dearly

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1Yr

@LeckerBierchen Warum?

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FairValue@FairValue

1Yr

Bitcoin will be currency, e.g. because it is limited. 😭
Oh dear

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1Yr

@FairValue Do you need more arguments? It was just an example.

Greetings

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FairValue@FairValue

1Yr

@PaulPDE A currency system that tends to be deflationary cannot work.
And a currency that fluctuates strongly in value is also quite critical - the keyword is store of value.

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1Yr

@FairValue That's right. We would rather "trust" in a system that consists of lies and nobody knows how much of this money is floating around (US dollar). Currency has changed over the centuries and will continue to do so. After FIAT comes crypto. What is the argument against it? A currency that has a value, namely its finiteness. And that is precisely why it is natural for it to fluctuate in value, just as a "value" should. What is so good about the US dollar? -> Perhaps the fact that an estimated 27 trillion of them are in circulation, because they retain their value and all that. Or, if you're a bit short of money in the state, ah, we just print more. Or that it's infinite? Unfortunately, I'm no longer convinced. How do you see it? Regards

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FairValue@FairValue

1Yr

@Pauljj Think for yourself. Economics 1x1 - why can't a monetary system with a deflationary currency work?
I'll give you the start of the chain of thought -> there is an incentive not to issue the currency (i.e. BTC) or only to issue it in the future.

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Luke@Luke_B

1Yr

@Pauljj 1. the state does not print money, the central bank does that. 2. if a lot of money is printed, tax revenues fall, the state is also affected by inflation and can finance itself less from tax revenues

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CrashBurner@Psychedelic_Sunflower

1Yr

@Luke_B Wow yes. Central banks. You're right and who does the central bank answer to? And 2: I believe that there is nothing positive about printing money because we are issuing ourselves unnatural means. According to Aristotle, money should arise from nature and not multiply itself or be multiplied by state institutions. Quite simply, if you have no money, you have no money.

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Billy O.@IBilly

1Yr

The finite nature of Bitcoin reminds me of the shaky foundations of the gold standard, which used to be something like the "kingdom of uncertainties". Our fiat money system, on the other hand, is like a reliable friend who always has enough money to spend. In contrast, Bitcoin is like an unpredictable circus clown that bounces back and forth in an uncontrolled whirlwind of value and then suddenly vanishes into thin air, only to reappear later and scare people.
Bitcoin is based on nothing but air and promise, and its wild fluctuations make even roller coaster rides look like walks in the park. People put their faith in it because they simply have too much free time on their hands and like to gamble with their savings. But honestly, would you trust your savings to a digital joke pushed by anonymous online gurus?
In comparison, gold is like a faithful dog that has stood beside us for thousands of years and never loses its value. Gold has seen the world, survived crises and is still used as a currency and store of value. It's solid, reliable and there's no denying that owning a treasure chest full of gold coins is simply more glamorous than a digital wallet full of zeros and ones. When it comes to security, stability and real value, gold is the clear winner over this digital circus called Bitcoin.

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1Yr

@IBilly beautifully written

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ViGr@ViGr

1Yr

Investing in BTC is also only based on trust and the hope that everyone else will also invest in BTC and want to use it as a currency at some point

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1Yr

@ViGr That will be the case.

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Jan@Altglascontainer

1Yr

@Pauljj Where do you get this certainty from?

Everyone in the Bitcoin subreddit is completely convinced, but what does that mean for the population as a whole?
The vast majority of people have nothing to do with crypto and those who do are partly just speculators looking to make a profit.

Besides, a deflationary currency would be the worst thing that could happen to the economy.
Why would anyone spend money that is always increasing in value?

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1Yr

Bitcoin will be the future currency "because it is limited"?
Can you explain that? I don't understand it at all.

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1Yr

@DerMartin Hi Martin. Of course I can. FIAT currency, for example, is not limited like the US dollar, of which there are currently a relaxed 27 trillion in circulation. BTC has exactly 21 million. In short, when all 21 million are issued, which they are not yet, then supply & demand will occur, as it should. So we have a currency that has real value because it is decentralized and cannot be influenced by any government institution, as it is today. I associate BTC with honesty, as this system cannot be influenced and exploited, just like the US government can exploit the US dollar when another giant company goes bankrupt and money is needed (simply print it).

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1Yr

@Pauljj Thank you for the explanation 👍

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1Yr

@DerMartin 🙏🙏

••

InvestOverFun@InvestIverFun

1Yr

@Pauljj Do you think it's not a problem that the amount of coins is constantly decreasing due to loss?

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Golden Boy@randomdude

1Yr

@Pauljj Okay, you've described the reality. But there is zero justification for your assumption that $BTC is the coming currency. That's a bit like saying "It's colder today than it is outside".

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1Yr

@Pauljj How do you come up with 27 trillion dollars? 😅😅🤣
Source please

••

1Yr

@Mike_Invest That is indeed an insane value that cannot be. Ah @Pauljj has since deleted his post.

••

1Yr

@DerMartin Which post should I have deleted?

••

1Yr

@Pauljj Oh. Sorry. The post with the 27 trillion wasn't shown to me earlier.

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1Yr

@DerMartin No problem. Here is my source (not confirmed by institutions but a conspiracy theory that of course nobody wants to admit, so you can consider my argument insignificant if you want) + Elon Musk posted it: https://x.com/ashcryptoreal/status/1767959247298478173?s=46

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Matthias@Aktienhengst

1Yr

First of all, congratulations on your crypto (book) wins, I also hold a lot of cryptos and have already been able to make a decent return.
However, I see BTC more as an asset that is limited in this world, similar to gold. And also as speculation.

Saying "Bitcoin will be the future currency" seems as if you have the magic crystal ball and are still very inexperienced in long-term (!) investing.
My question to you: what do you do if politics doesn't play along? For example, if the EU decides to ban Bitcoin as a means of payment and a law is passed? The same is possible in the USA or Switzerland.
After all, our own task forces are already working intensively on a digital euro and this is guaranteed to come.

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1Yr

@Aktienhengst In my opinion, people who are now taking profits don't understand the point of BTC (no hate, really). And yes, restrictions like MiCa from the EU are a thorn in our side, but that's exactly the point of these restrictions. Namely to stop and not to trust the system anymore. But I'm not going to do that. If restrictions are imposed, it's a direct infringement of my freedom, because I'm being told where to keep my assets.

And yes, the digital euro will restrict and guard us all extremely. That's why more and more people are putting their trust in BTc, because decentralized!!!!

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Matthias@Aktienhengst

1Yr

@Pauljj I agree with you on that. I also hold or "hodle" BTC.

I also understand that a political restriction is a thorn in the side for many. I also understand that it is a huge intrusion into personal freedom. But you haven't answered my question: even if it is, politicians can still do it. And then BTC could be banned as an official means of payment, and the law is the law. How can BTC then be the new world currency, as you so confidently write here?

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1Yr

@Aktienhengst Then I have lost and see myself as a victim of an authoritarian global system. What am I supposed to do then? If the EU wants to restrict me, then more and more people will wake up and there will be major disagreements. That's all I can do.

••

1Yr

I always have one question about "Bitcoin will be the future world currency": Currency is used to make transactions - how does the Bitcoin network manage this if it can only manage 7 transactions per second?

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1Yr

@Hofi That's why you have L2 Solutions :)

••

1Yr

@Hofi Bitcoin is a store of value (I explained why in a post) and not a fast means of payment. There are alternatives like Solana or similar with low fees. But good to know that bank transfers are faster than Bitcoin transactions... I must just be unlucky with my banks

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1Yr

@CoinDome jo I understand BTC as "digital gold". Do you also have a post on the second layer (I guess that's what L2 stands for?) issue?

Yes, real-time transfers exist, are already standard at some banks and are soon to be free at all European banks according to the EU regulation. But even now your credit card payments should be instant, shouldn't they? If not, you're really out of luck...

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1Yr

@Hofi The transfer thing was just a joke but saying Bitcoin sucks because transactions take 10-30 min doesn't make sense. I didn't make a post about Layer 2 Solutions but I can recommend the videos from Blocktrainer to everyone when it comes to Bitcoin

••

1Yr

@CoinDome A quick Google search: an estimated 1016 billion transactions were carried out worldwide in 2021 - that puts us at around 32,000 transactions per second, or around 1h15. And with the advancing digitalization (in Sweden I already paid the 5 crowns for the porta-potty with my credit card), this will certainly increase significantly in the future. If the second layer solves the problem: great! admittedly, I still have to read up on it. But the fact that nobody wants to wait hours for a transaction to go through is a fact and would certainly be a big problem in many industries.

Anyway - have a nice day!

••

1Yr

@Hofi So my transactions take an average of 10 to max. 30 minutes

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1Yr

@CoinDome so if you take your experience (an average of 15 minutes for a transaction) with 945 million BTC transactions worldwide in December 2023 (according to DEstatis), a transaction takes an average of 2.5 seconds.

Based on the transactions carried out worldwide in 2021, that would be 22h until a transaction goes through 😂

••

1Yr

@Hofi You have no idea how Bitcoin works apparently... please take a look at how transactions work with Bitcoin and try to think (for once)

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1Yr

@CoinDome ah yes of course 😂 I'm talking about the computing speed of the network and you're talking about mining the blocks. But hey, if logic is a foreign word to you, why don't you just say so and not hide behind hollow phrases?

"Therefore, network speed and network security are the predominant factors underlying the reputation of a payment network." - bitpanda

Visa up to 65,000/s vs. 7/s in the main layer, ?/s in the second layer?

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1Yr

@Hofi Maybe I misunderstood what you wanted to say? What exactly did you mean? A transaction takes on average 10-30 minutes depending on the block or how much you want to pay in transaction fees (to be in the next, overnight or whatever block)

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Thomas@WolfofNersingen

1Yr

Congratulations to you. I am the 20th SOS Button pusher.
Thank you

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Max B.@irritiertMax

1Yr

A few thoughts and arguments, since you are asking for contra arguments:

1. we have a target inflation of 2% in all states. Why: Price stability, avoid deflation (potential downward spiral because Downward spiral because everyone keeps their money in the hope of lower prices), empirical values (balance between economic growth, price stability, employment)

2. a cryptocurrency in which everyone invests because it will hopefully, but not certainly, be worth more in the future will never be able to hold its value and is only a bubble because people act emotionally.

3. why shouldn't Solana, where over 1 million transactions are processed every day, replace BTC? The same game with ETH & consorts. What speaks against it, hope?

4. how do I know that it will still be worth mining BTC in 8 years? You are dependent on graphics cards, which basically only Nvidia produces. Nvidia already has an average margin of 70% on their products. Who's to say they won't get even more expensive?

5. the exchanges also limit cryptocurrencies because they are not public exchanges like the Frankfurt Stock Exchange or the New York Stock Exchange, but private, mostly dubious companies that are completely non-transparent.

6 What happens if the exchanges are damaged to the extent that trading is no longer possible? Then I can still transfer something privately to PP, but that's it. If the technology is damaged, I also lose access. If I then need an extremely long password for access, it doesn't get any easier in a crisis scenario such as war, mass exodus etc.. Gold and cash are much more attractive.

7. although Michael Saylor is considered the crypto pope, he could currently sell the 200,000 BTC for a profit of 6 billion dollars. What is stopping him? That Bitcoin will rise to 1 million and the profit will be even higher? No, just the temporary price stability or price growth, until the first ones want to take the tasty profit and then the house of cards topples, as in the previous bull runs, where even the gold standard BTC lost up to 80% of its value and took 2.5 years to get back to the same value. Who tells me that it won't take even longer in the future to reach a new AZH and what do I do if I buy at the peak? Should I hold it for an uncertain time with hope? If there is one thing that destroys investments, it is hope. Either facts that something is undervalued and therefore buy it, but not because of a gut feeling or even hope. This kind of volatility and uncertainty scares off any investor who wants to build wealth - otherwise I can play the lottery every Wednesday and Saturday for 2.5 years and also play Eurojackpot every Tuesday and Friday, sign up for the TV lottery and Aktion Mensch and hopefully I'll be a rich man by then. Hope is loss when it comes to money.

In short, just because there has been a bull run in Halving three times in the past is no guarantee for the future, let alone for value stability. Such a volatile asset can quickly backfire, so caution is not the wisest course of action.

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Seiky@Seiky

1Yr

You will do well with bitcoin if you really keep buying in the long term and don't trade (not even long-term trades). I understand your logic about altcoins, but you have to be aware that it's a gamble. There is also a chance that you will end up accumulating less BTC because you are gambling.

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Business P.@businesspepe

1Yr

Politicians and central banks will never allow a currency that they cannot control. But try to change my mind, I've already taken some sweet profits. I think Bitcoin will go in the direction of gold at some point. And the return on gold is worse than stocks, so I'm sticking with it. But good luck with your investments.

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Aktienmasseur@Aktienmasseur

1Yr

Who hasn't experienced it: Germany doesn't even offer card payments everywhere, but in the long term, trading via Bitcoin? I don't think so

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DerDanner@Therapeut

1Yr

🆘️ You have to get back to 8x🆘️ somehow

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ViGr@ViGr

1Yr

And who keeps NFTs these days 😂

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Hildegaard@Hildegaard

1Yr

Thesis: everything on Bitcoin. Bold, but so be it. (Counter-thesis: nothing runs on Bitcoin) Nevertheless, it is irrelevant what a Bitcoin costs.

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Hans M.@kwarzel

1Yr

Bitcoin is no more a currency than gold; transactions take far too long. And whether it serves as a store of value remains to be seen. At the moment, its history is still quite short. This does not mean that you cannot speculate with it. As an asset, it has more or less just received its accolade.

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Trizzle@Trizzle

1Yr

Why should BTC be the "currency of the future", what is positive about a deflationary currency? The vast majority of economists see slight (2-3%) inflation as positive. What convinces you otherwise?
I still support Bitcoin as a store of value and speculative object to a limited extent, but a deflationary currency would only have negative consequences in my opinion. It is also unlikely that the big players on the financial market would simply give up their position of power so easily. But you can keep dreaming.
All the best and continued success. But be a little more constructive in your discussion behavior.

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Save_Income@Mexico2035

1Yr

I'm only here for the comments :'D

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Michael K.@AlexisMachine

1Yr

Nope, Bitcoin will never become the "future currency". Neither now nor in the future. Nor will all the other "coins". But I don't begrudge anyone getting rich with them.

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Pascal@Pacco93

1Yr

I've really read through every comment and thought about the pros and cons. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it turns out the way you hope. But you should really start trying to leave the huge Bitcoin bubble you're living in, it doesn't sound healthy anymore 🙏

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Blackcat1208@Blackcat1208

1Yr

You have convinced me. 95% were against my stance and provided sensible facts (no they didn't). I will sell almost everything and build up 50% ETF, 40% shares and 10% (very risky) crypto. In addition, overnight money to save something on the side. Many thanks for the helpful tips.

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TiBa7@TiBa7

1Yr

Portfolio á la HKCM?
Really strong profits on BTC 💪🏻

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1Yr

Bitcoin may be the better currency, but it will be fought accordingly.

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Paulie@Paulie

1Yr

Bought weed probably because of the new regulation in April, BUT cannabis doesn't work 9 times out of 10. Don't know why, but never made a profit in almost all cases.

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1Yr

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1Yr

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1Yr

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