Sparfuchs · 2023-12-21T21:16:56.366576Z

@Whats_next You have to post it in the right currency, then it works faster with the million.

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I sold the day before the ex-dividend and bought again on the ex-dividend date. Saved withholding tax. I wouldn't do this with shares with a lower dividend yield, but it has worked well here the last few times.

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

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@Chandra I have a few more Norwegian shares in my other custody account. The withholding tax doesn't bother me there, as I submit an application every year.

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Paul@Paul1234

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@Chandra Would you like to explain this again, you avoid the withholding tax but still get the divi?

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N@Khlmysee

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@Paul1234 No, how would that work? Every dividend that is distributed is also taxed accordingly. Everything else is an old wives' tale.

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

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@Paul1234 I don't know, Norway also has a capital gains tax and therefore withholding tax to pay. I'm not worried about this either, as you can get the withholding tax back from Norway 5 years retroactively and even with interest.

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Chandra@Chandra

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@Paul1234 The dividend is deducted from the share price on the ex-date.

Concrete example from my portfolio from the last ex-date:
- 12.12.23: Sell at €1.177 per share
- 13.12.23: Purchase at €1.003 per share.
This gives me a "dividend" of 17.4 cents per share. As this is not a real dividend, but only a purchase/sale, it is offset against my profit/loss pot for shares.
I do not receive a dividend as I did not hold the shares on the night of the ex-date. I therefore do not have to pay withholding tax.
However, as I buy again at a lower price, I still have a profit that roughly corresponds to the amount of the dividend (+/- daily price fluctuation).
In the case of shares with a lower dividend yield, the daily fluctuations are too great compared to the dividend and therefore this is not recommended. As I trade with Scalable, I also have no transaction costs.

Is that easier to understand?

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

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@Chandra Yes, and you pay 25% withholding tax on the difference between 1.177 and 1.003. Because it has to be paid on all investment income and your Norwegian loss pot doesn't matter. You only don't pay the German capital gains tax if there is still room in your loss pot or allowance.

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Chandra@Chandra

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@KleinviehmachtMist The difference is the price loss in the period in which I did NOT own the share. I pay nothing on this.

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

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@Chandra If you have done this every quarter then the difference will have been positive. That's what you pay on. Otherwise you have found a way to burn money.

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Chandra@Chandra

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@KleinviehmachtMist I only pay capital gains tax and solidarity surcharge on capital gains. Withholding tax is not payable on the sale of Norwegian shares. I am very surprised how you came up with that!

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

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@Chandra @KleinviehmachtMist if the dividend is high enough, then I also do this from time to time to avoid withholding tax 👍
We Austrians also pay withholding tax on DE shares, for example - by selling/buying them, you save approx. 12% and have in fact also bagged the dividend in terms of value 😁

PS @KleinviehmachtMist withholding tax is NEVER offset on capital gains from the sale, this has nothing to do with company profits, which must be taxed at source...😉

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N@Khlmysee

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Their dividends were also one-off effects, weren't they?

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Felix@G30G43BR4

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@Kohlmeyse Yes, although this was the "normal" quarterly dividend. Special dividends are no longer planned in the current interest rate environment. They prefer to use the money to pay off debts.

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N@Khlmysee

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@G30G43BR4 No, it cannot be that this is the "normal" dividend or will be in the future. The dividend has only been paid since 2022 and has benefited from special effects since the beginning, which will most likely no longer exist in the future.

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

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@Kohlmeyse were the normal ones this time. There was an additional special dividend last time.

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N@Khlmysee

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@KleinviehmachtMist Yes, I understand that, but that is also a value that will not be maintained after 2024, right? I think these are short-term effects in the logistics sector.

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

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@Kohlmeyse Yes, Corona was very good for the logistics companies. However, $MPCC does not transport, they only lease the ships or sell them after depreciation. It's actually like $UKW only with ships.

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Felix@G30G43BR4

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@Kohlmeyse I think I misunderstood the question a bit, sorry. The quarterly dividend is currently 75% of Adj. net income. Therefore, no special accounting effects are included here.

However, it remains to be seen how long we will remain in an environment of such high freight rates (and thus charter rates for ships). My crystal ball is unfortunately defective at the moment 😅

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