Hey there, sorry I didn’t have time to talk to the agent about it until now—here’s our response for you :)
The Gartner figures are essentially correct. However, I’d be a bit more cautious in interpreting them—“Neocloudocalypse” is the sensationalized headline, not Gartner’s actual message.
Gartner actually forecasts:
- just under $1 trillion in AI infrastructure investments by 2026,
- an additional $6 trillion from 2027 to 2030,
- a cumulative revenue requirement of 8.5 trillion dollars to cover investments, financing costs, and an assumed return on investment of 12%,
- but only a maximum of 3.6 trillion dollars in AI revenue that can be attributed to data centers.
That is a massive gap. However, two points should be clarified.
**First: The 80 % does not mean 80 % of companies will go bankrupt.**
Gartner states that more than 80% of providers could cease **independent operations** by 2030. This could include not only bankruptcies but also acquisitions, mergers, partnerships, or strategic shifts.
Furthermore, the figure refers to the number of providers, not 80% of computing power or invested capital. If numerous small neoclouds disappear while a few large providers continue to grow, both statements can be true at the same time:
- massive consolidation,
- a neocloud market that continues to grow strongly.
In June, Gartner ultimately predicted that neoclouds could account for around 20% of a $267 billion AI cloud market by 2030. Gartner therefore does not expect the end of the business model, but rather significantly fewer independent winners.
**Second: The four trillion is not an announced write-down amount.**
Gartner refers to more than $3.5 trillion in investments that could be exposed to a write-down risk by the end of 2030, or more than $4 trillion in at-risk assets by 2032.
“Exposed to write-down risk” does not mean that these four trillion will be written off in full. The assets could yield lower returns, be partially written down, repurposed, or sold to other operators. Equating a write-down risk directly with a certain capital loss of the same amount would be a bit like immediately tearing down every property whose market value has fallen.
**Why are stocks falling so sharply today of all days?**
Yes, Gartner’s report aligns perfectly with today’s sell-off and likely exacerbated concerns. The more immediate trigger, however, was a combination of several factors:
1. U.S. inflation rose to 3.7% in September, exceeding the expected 3.6%.
2. As a result, the market took the prospect of another Fed rate hike more seriously.
3. The two-year U.S. yield jumped by about 7 basis points, and the ten-year yield by about 4 basis points.
4. At the same time, CoreWeave’s bonds came under massive pressure.
5. The yield on a CoreWeave bond rose at times to approximately 15%.
This last point is particularly important: The credit market has suddenly made clear what additional financing could cost for a capital-hungry “neocloud” operator. Reuters explicitly attributes today’s decline in the group’s stock to higher interest rate expectations and growing doubts about the financing of AI expansion.
So this wasn’t just a Gartner report. It was a rather unpleasant mix of soaring inflation, rising yields, weak corporate bonds, and a report published on the very same day that explains exactly why this combination can be dangerous.
**Nevertheless, the companies mentioned should not be lumped together.**
- **CoreWeave** is the most immediate cause for concern: very high debt and lease obligations, massive expansion plans, and, as a result, extreme dependence on the credit market. In the second quarter alone, the company raised more than $10 billion through unsecured debt and convertible bonds.
- **Nebius** also operates a capital-intensive AI cloud model, but has diverse financing channels and now also leverages partnerships in which infrastructure partners provide a portion of the capital or data centers.
- **IREN** is vertically integrated and owns power access, data centers, and computing infrastructure. A significant portion of the GPU investments for large contracts is covered by customer prepayments and project-based financing. This reduces risk but does not eliminate debt, dilution, customer concentration, or the risk of rapid GPU obsolescence. IREN most recently reported approximately $7.4 billion in long-term debt.
- **Applied Digital** is more of a data center developer and lessor than a traditional GPU cloud provider. Its risks lie primarily in construction costs, financing, completion, and the creditworthiness of major tenants. Long-term take-or-pay contracts provide some protection, but they are of little help if a major tenant runs into financing problems of its own.
Incidentally, the LAMB link leads to the cryptocurrency Lambda. This is not the stock of the American AI cloud provider of the same name. Apparently, the wrong Lambda has found its way into the apocalypse.
**My Conclusion**
The Gartner warning should be taken seriously. It very aptly describes the central risk of this boom:
> Demand for AI may grow strongly, yet numerous infrastructure operators may still make poor investments.
What matters is not just whether more computing power is needed, but:
- at what prices it is sold,
- how high the actual utilization rate is,
- how quickly the GPUs become technically obsolete,
- how expensive debt financing becomes,
- how robust the customer contracts are,
- who bears the residual value risk,
- and how much dilution will be necessary to secure financing.
Today’s sell-off is pricing in this risk more heavily. However, it does not mean that Gartner has already been “proven” wrong. The market is simply raising the risk premium for all business models that must invest billions before the corresponding cash flow actually hits the bank account.
Or to put it more succinctly: **AI demand doesn’t have to collapse for capital to be destroyed at the “neoclouds.” It’s enough for demand to grow more slowly than debt, capacity, and depreciation.**
The Gartner figures are essentially correct. However, I’d be a bit more cautious in interpreting them—“Neocloudocalypse” is the sensationalized headline, not Gartner’s actual message.
Gartner actually forecasts:
- just under $1 trillion in AI infrastructure investments by 2026,
- an additional $6 trillion from 2027 to 2030,
- a cumulative revenue requirement of 8.5 trillion dollars to cover investments, financing costs, and an assumed return on investment of 12%,
- but only a maximum of 3.6 trillion dollars in AI revenue that can be attributed to data centers.
That is a massive gap. However, two points should be clarified.
**First: The 80 % does not mean 80 % of companies will go bankrupt.**
Gartner states that more than 80% of providers could cease **independent operations** by 2030. This could include not only bankruptcies but also acquisitions, mergers, partnerships, or strategic shifts.
Furthermore, the figure refers to the number of providers, not 80% of computing power or invested capital. If numerous small neoclouds disappear while a few large providers continue to grow, both statements can be true at the same time:
- massive consolidation,
- a neocloud market that continues to grow strongly.
In June, Gartner ultimately predicted that neoclouds could account for around 20% of a $267 billion AI cloud market by 2030. Gartner therefore does not expect the end of the business model, but rather significantly fewer independent winners.
**Second: The four trillion is not an announced write-down amount.**
Gartner refers to more than $3.5 trillion in investments that could be exposed to a write-down risk by the end of 2030, or more than $4 trillion in at-risk assets by 2032.
“Exposed to write-down risk” does not mean that these four trillion will be written off in full. The assets could yield lower returns, be partially written down, repurposed, or sold to other operators. Equating a write-down risk directly with a certain capital loss of the same amount would be a bit like immediately tearing down every property whose market value has fallen.
**Why are stocks falling so sharply today of all days?**
Yes, Gartner’s report aligns perfectly with today’s sell-off and likely exacerbated concerns. The more immediate trigger, however, was a combination of several factors:
1. U.S. inflation rose to 3.7% in September, exceeding the expected 3.6%.
2. As a result, the market took the prospect of another Fed rate hike more seriously.
3. The two-year U.S. yield jumped by about 7 basis points, and the ten-year yield by about 4 basis points.
4. At the same time, CoreWeave’s bonds came under massive pressure.
5. The yield on a CoreWeave bond rose at times to approximately 15%.
This last point is particularly important: The credit market has suddenly made clear what additional financing could cost for a capital-hungry “neocloud” operator. Reuters explicitly attributes today’s decline in the group’s stock to higher interest rate expectations and growing doubts about the financing of AI expansion.
So this wasn’t just a Gartner report. It was a rather unpleasant mix of soaring inflation, rising yields, weak corporate bonds, and a report published on the very same day that explains exactly why this combination can be dangerous.
**Nevertheless, the companies mentioned should not be lumped together.**
- **CoreWeave** is the most immediate cause for concern: very high debt and lease obligations, massive expansion plans, and, as a result, extreme dependence on the credit market. In the second quarter alone, the company raised more than $10 billion through unsecured debt and convertible bonds.
- **Nebius** also operates a capital-intensive AI cloud model, but has diverse financing channels and now also leverages partnerships in which infrastructure partners provide a portion of the capital or data centers.
- **IREN** is vertically integrated and owns power access, data centers, and computing infrastructure. A significant portion of the GPU investments for large contracts is covered by customer prepayments and project-based financing. This reduces risk but does not eliminate debt, dilution, customer concentration, or the risk of rapid GPU obsolescence. IREN most recently reported approximately $7.4 billion in long-term debt.
- **Applied Digital** is more of a data center developer and lessor than a traditional GPU cloud provider. Its risks lie primarily in construction costs, financing, completion, and the creditworthiness of major tenants. Long-term take-or-pay contracts provide some protection, but they are of little help if a major tenant runs into financing problems of its own.
Incidentally, the LAMB link leads to the cryptocurrency Lambda. This is not the stock of the American AI cloud provider of the same name. Apparently, the wrong Lambda has found its way into the apocalypse.
**My Conclusion**
The Gartner warning should be taken seriously. It very aptly describes the central risk of this boom:
> Demand for AI may grow strongly, yet numerous infrastructure operators may still make poor investments.
What matters is not just whether more computing power is needed, but:
- at what prices it is sold,
- how high the actual utilization rate is,
- how quickly the GPUs become technically obsolete,
- how expensive debt financing becomes,
- how robust the customer contracts are,
- who bears the residual value risk,
- and how much dilution will be necessary to secure financing.
Today’s sell-off is pricing in this risk more heavily. However, it does not mean that Gartner has already been “proven” wrong. The market is simply raising the risk premium for all business models that must invest billions before the corresponding cash flow actually hits the bank account.
Or to put it more succinctly: **AI demand doesn’t have to collapse for capital to be destroyed at the “neoclouds.” It’s enough for demand to grow more slowly than debt, capacity, and depreciation.**
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@Raketentoni Thank you!
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•@Raketentoni "Wrong Lambda ends up in the Apocalypse" Haha 😂 I'll fix that
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@Raketentoni Coreweave is a zombie company. It will surely be acquired by Nvidia at some point.
Iren is following in Plug Power’s footsteps (dilution spiral) and will eventually see the same stock price trend. It will surely be acquired at a bargain price at some point as well.
Iren is following in Plug Power’s footsteps (dilution spiral) and will eventually see the same stock price trend. It will surely be acquired at a bargain price at some point as well.
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•@Olli68 That says it all:
CoreWeave was hit the hardest. The data center operator rents out Nvidia AI chips and is saddled with more than $40 billion in debt. On Wednesday, its stock plummeted by a good 15 percent. The bond markets are already pricing in a more than 60 percent probability of bankruptcy within five years.
CoreWeave was hit the hardest. The data center operator rents out Nvidia AI chips and is saddled with more than $40 billion in debt. On Wednesday, its stock plummeted by a good 15 percent. The bond markets are already pricing in a more than 60 percent probability of bankruptcy within five years.
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•@Raketentoni I'm a little worried that Iren is winning every poll here on the forum and continues to be hyped up like this. Given their funding method—constantly issuing new shares at ever-lower prices—there's going to be a rude awakening at some point. At some point, they simply won’t be able to afford the low share prices anymore—in the truest sense of the word.
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•@Olli68 The problem is that most of the young people investing there haven’t experienced a real crash yet.
Besides, I know plenty of them who’ve taken out loans to invest. There’s currently 1.5 trillion DOLLARS in the stock market that private individuals have borrowed.
If prices keep falling and they’re all FORCED to cash out, then good night.
Besides, I know plenty of them who’ve taken out loans to invest. There’s currently 1.5 trillion DOLLARS in the stock market that private individuals have borrowed.
If prices keep falling and they’re all FORCED to cash out, then good night.
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@Olli68 I had already commented on this during the last random hype-score poll.🤷🏼♂️ Profitability, the sustainability of the business model, etc., don’t seem to be playing a serious role (at least not yet). Whether this is due to ignorance or pure greed, I’m not in a position to make a valid judgment.
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•@Get_Rich_or_Die_Tryin Yeah, it's kind of getting faster and more superficial. 👍
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