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Sina · 2025-03-27T13:03:41.735254Z

At the risk of polarizing this article... 30% capital gains tax? No tax exemption for crypto? (Will gold follow?) Significant increase in the income tax rate? Speculation tax on real estate? I'm flying to Dubai on Sunday and will be looking at real estate there at the beginning of the week. I don't know whether I'll actually make the move. Unlike in other professions, as a lawyer it's not so easy to just carry on working there. After all, my current employer is also based in Dubai... But maybe I'll do something completely different, who knows. At least I'm not at the moment... so I'm now looking at the possibilities.

BM@Bmahone

5G

I'm going to Switzerland in August 🇨🇭 I've already got a job there and everything is under wraps away from Germany 🙌

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Cekay@CMustermann

5G

@Bmahone Nice. If you ever find the time, I would find an experience report on this very helpful. We are currently planning the same thing.

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BM@Bmahone

5G

@CMustermann
I drove down depending on which canton you want to move to. There are these places, so I went to Zurich, for example. You need a b or c residence permit, but you can usually get a B permit and then you can stay in Switzerland for three months. I took a hotel room there for that long and went looking for a job. But you also have to be able to prove that you have enough money in your pocket. Ideally, of course, you should have found a direct job so that you can get this certificate straight away because otherwise it's a bit of an obstacle or, as I said, you have enough money so that you don't have to live on anyone's pocket. Between 2000 or 3000 Fr. would be optimal, above that of course everything would be considerably better then you would have fewer problems. But if you can show everything, you have money, you have a job.

Then, logically, you also have to take care of health insurance, which you also have to take out. Provided you have found an apartment and a job. You have up to three months to do this.

Of course you also have to inform the authorities of this here are the receipts I am insured.

Of course you also have to register for tax purposes that you are now living permanently in Switzerland.

Either you take the radical step of moving to Switzerland completely before you give up everything in Germany, in which case you will of course be subject to double taxation under the double tax agreement, but if you give up everything in the country then you will only be fully resident in Switzerland.

Once the three months are up, you have to extend this with the residence permit and prove that you still have the apartment, the job and so on. B or L where L is even valid for five years. And of course you have to bring these normal papers with you, I'm going to say proof of employment, i.e. your contract, your personal details, i.e. your passport etc., the residence permit and so on and so forth, so it starts all over again and then you have a few years of peace and quiet for the time being

And if everything has worked out by then, you can apply for a C permit, which means permanent, but you must have lived and worked in Switzerland for the whole five years. And if that all works out, you can then apply for citizenship, which also takes years, but since you're as good as integrated with a C anyway, it doesn't matter at some point you'll have your I'm calling this my Swiss passport in quotation marks that you're 100% Swiss 😄😄 it's very annoying but it's definitely worth it

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Rolex Federer@federalreserve

5G

Very cool, as a Swiss I am happy about Germans moving to Switzerland 🤝🏻 hope you can already spend August 1st in Switzerland. (Highest national holiday) 🍾🥳

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BM@Bmahone

5G

@federalreserve Yes, I'm already looking forward to it 😌the next thing I just have to take care of now is somehow a depot, so I have to look for good alternatives to Trade Republic and so on, then I could finally have Lindt in my depot 😄

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Rolex Federer@federalreserve

5G

@Bmahone Swissquote is very good. Yuh should also be good. Saxo is a newcomer that is being talked about a lot. Pillar 3a is important, you are welcome to find out more. If you choose frankly, I also have a code 😂🙏🏻

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BM@Bmahone

5G

@federalreserve I actually already have swissquote, but I've only ever used it as an account to store euros in francs for exchange😂 To be honest, I've never really looked into the fact that you can also do stocks and things like that there, apart from the prices. I've only ever used it as an account

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Luna@PippiLangstrumpf

5G

@BM welcome then. I'm with Neon, simply because I already had an account there. Swissquote and Yuh are equivalent in terms of costs. Swissquote probably has the biggest offer.

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Cekay@CMustermann

5G

@Bmahone Thank you. I would apply from Germany for jobs in Switzerland at larger companies.

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BM@Bmahone

5G

@CMustermann That's great😃😃

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DoeJohnOne@DoeJohnOne

5G

Then you can look forward to 35% capital gains tax at 🇨🇭
Don't want to open a can of worms here with the cost of living etc...

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Visualizza tutti 11 ulteriori risposte

Play R.@Playrio

5G

I think it's good when people who are dissatisfied take action and don't just complain. So all the best. Personally, I am happy and grateful to be able to live in Germany. Dubai would be the last place I would want to live. But everyone is different and everyone has a different view of things.

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Sina@lawinvest

5G

@Playrio Dubai is not uncritical in some respects. But I also booked a ticket to Miami on Thursday. Admittedly, it's a limited Difficult flight time from Dubai, but at least it's a direct flight. But the USA are not entirely uncritical, at least at the moment 😅 I don't have to rush into anything. I'll take a look at them first

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Fabre@Fabre

5G

You are welcome to come to Switzerland! The left-wing economic and unworldly politicians in your country still haven't understood. They're all just greedy for power. Dr. Clown Merz is now also on the left and has sold his soul for power! If I were German, I would emigrate immediately.

The last one turns out the lights in Berlin

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Cekay@CMustermann

5G

@Fabre please put in a good word for us 👉🏻👈🏻

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McZed@McZed

5G

@Fabre Merz did not get 50%+ so that he could govern alone. This has nothing to do with the fact that he is "left-wing". He has to find compromises with the SPD. Just like any other party would have to, unless it has an absolute majority. Even in Switzerland.

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Fabre@Fabre

5G

But in Switzerland we don't build brown walls. Elected by the people means in government! We do not exclude any parties! Afd=svp! Everyone must be considered, left and right! AFD is 20% of the people's vote and will be ignored. It doesn't work like that and Merz's clown has to go against the left! And such a vote belongs before the people! A federal parliament must not decide something like this with false election promises! You have no direct democracy! A candidate can lie at the election like Merz and then change direction! In Switzerland, votes go before the people!

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Jonas@Schnurze

4G

@Fabre Now I don't know the SVP well enough, but the AFD lacks the simplest basics. They can't even read properly and spread unfiltered false statements (perhaps deliberately). Almost like Merz, only 10 times worse. They should be involved in the government?

Imagine governing was a soccer match. Everyone (more or less) sticks to the rules, only the AFD thinks it has to play a hand game all the time. Would you include the AFD in your team? Then you'd be constantly outnumbered 😀

The people who vote AFD haven't studied the party and/or want to get rid of their personal frustration.

I also think the politicians up there are out of touch and that they are only thinking about their own welfare/enriching themselves. But the AfD is 1:1 the same, only stupid and antisocial. If you're against the system, then you should just vote for the Animal Protection Party or something. But sorry, the AFD is not an alternative!

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Horrax D@Horrax

3G

@Schnurze Everything you say is theory. There are umpteen examples where you can say the same against every single other party in the Bundestag. AFD garbage or not. It can hardly get any worse than the current one. If the party is so stupid, do you want to wait until it gets 50%? I really don't know what people are thinking... And as the previous speaker said, an election is an election. You either do democracy or you don't. It really is that simple.

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Jonas@Schnurze

2G

@Horrax It could get a lot worse than the previous governments. The Nazis were also elected back then. Was that a good thing? Should we make the same mistake now?

Besides, the AfD is in the Bundestag. So why isn't that a democracy? If the AfD's content is not even remotely compatible with any other party, coalition negotiations simply don't make sense. 20% of people like the content, but 80% - i.e. by far the majority - don't! That's democracy ;)

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LarryLindt@LarryLindt

2G

Calling the CDU left-wing is absolutely wild 😂😵‍💫😂😵‍💫

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Marvin@mavyy

1G

@Fabre man man man, not even here is one safe from right-wing swindlers without brains. Anyone who thinks that there is anything remotely left-wing about the CDU+SPD needs urgent tuition in politics.

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Fabre@Fabre

1G

@mavyy I'm anything but a right-wing pansy. In DE, I would even have voted for the Cdu in the election program! But what Merz has done is cheating all voters. You have the choice between plague and cholera! Cdu has failed and IS now definitely left-wing, because they have built a firewall! That leaves only the AFD. It's also too right-wing for me, but everything else is bad for the economy! And especially for me Germans! I'm Swiss, we have other problems, but definitely not such shitty politics!

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Horrax D@Horrax

1G

@Schnurze generalized again. As if 20% AfD means it's 20% against 80%.
So CDU voters love green, spd and left-wing election programs? You can go on arguing like that forever.
My point here is not pro AfD but the general picture that is being painted here.

Of course it could be worse, but the scaremongering comes from those in power and is reinforced in the media. You can share their opinion. Everyone has their own opinion. But I personally think that simply delegitimizing another opinion is wrong and at least as dangerous.

It looks to me like a case where it's difficult to remain truly objective.

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Cekay@CMustermann

5G

And another top taxpayer is leaving the country. Well done SPD!

We'll start scouting locations in Switzerland in the summer, and when I finish my MBA next year, we'll start actively looking.

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BritishNick@BritishNick

5G

I worked there for 4 years. I enjoyed the access to other parts of the world but found Dubai to be draining. You have to close your eyes to the way people are treated, that it’s an economy that trades on low wages and no social protections.

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Miki@MikiChiu

4G

@BritishNick some lawyers are more than fine with exploitation, I'm pretty sure Amazon 's lawyers sleep tight at night

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Tobi@Tobiwankenobi500

5G

Hi @lawinvest - please keep us up to date :)

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Stephan@Boergieking

5G

I keep reading here that it's better or better elsewhere than in Germany...I'm not always sure to be honest.

Certainly not everything is perfect in Germany, but these blind spots will also exist in Switzerland and certainly in Dubai.

I know a Swiss man who moved to Germany for love. He is not a wealthy person, he trained as an electronics technician. He earns almost 30% less here than in Switzerland, but according to him, he can afford more from his net salary here in Germany than he used to in Switzerland.

I would therefore be interested to hear the experiences of people who took this step 2-3 years ago.

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Stefan@Da_Fischi

5G

@Boergieking We moved to Spain 8 years ago and, weighing up all the pros and cons, we are better off here than in Germany. However, someone else may come to a different conclusion based on what we have defined as quality of life.

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Stephan@Boergieking

4G

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Why always Switzerland and Dubai and not the Netherlands, Austria, Luxembourg, Belgium, etc.? Of course, this depends on many personal factors, but to attribute a move solely to taxes and to say that I have more net income here or there is too one-sided. You need to clarify your entire life up to the question of what you will do in old age.

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Dan@fizzelfritz

5G

I'm starting work in Thailand in 5 days... I'm looking forward to it. Good luck with your apartment search 🏙️

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Louis@Dellou

5G

I always don't understand how people can emigrate so easily... Don't you have any friends?

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Tobi@Tobiwankenobi500

5G

@Dellou Real friends are always there :)

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Imvestment4Life@Investment4Life

5G

@Dellou I, for example, find friends very easily. Could live anywhere. In fact, many childhood friends live all over the world. No matter where and when I go on vacation, you always see each other and you always stay in touch via Whatsapp/Imstagram.

If the tax burden is increased in Austria, I will also move out with my €150,000 salary!

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Mister_ultra@Mister_ultra

5G

@Dellou For me, this is also the absolutely decisive reason. Family and friends all live in the same district. None of my closest friends have really moved more than a few kilometers away.

I would emigrate in a heartbeat, but family and friends definitely keep me here.

So the state can exploit me further and further...

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Uwe@SchlaubiSchlumpf

5G

@Dellou I don't understand that either. Of course you keep in touch. But I sometimes suffer from the fact that I've moved 200km away from my friends and family. How do you do it when you have several thousand?

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Sina@lawinvest

5G

@Dellou I totally understand you, but if you come from a region in Germany that you left behind to study (a few contacts are still there), studied in Berlin - at turbo speed, so hardly any time for contacts - and then work 60-80 hours a week in a law firm in HH, then there's not much time for connections. By the way, an interesting consideration to change that as soon as possible

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Ralf@edihose

5G

@Dellou Your friend is money 💰

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MO@Oppiwahn

4G

But even many, some of them moved away years ago, my friends are spread all over the world. By that I mean people who have accompanied me through life for decades. I'd rather have a few good friends than lots of superficial ones. As you get older, your priorities change.

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user6a41fe783ab44@user6a41fe783ab44

4G

Cash about human rights 🤡

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LarryLindt@LarryLindt

2G

@user6a41fe783ab44 Cash via drainage system

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Ph1l1pp@Ph1l1pp

1G

@user6a41fe783ab44 Migration over the security of your own population 🤡

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LarryLindt@LarryLindt

1G

@Ph1l1pp perceived safety because you read too much picture? 🤔

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Ph1l1pp@Ph1l1pp

22H

@LarryLindt Statistically proven security through the PKS

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trade_whisperer_1842@trade_whisperer_1842

4G

I can understand anyone who wants to emigrate.
I'll stay here and ride it out.
Our inn is over 800 years old and has been in the family for over 100 years. Our business has survived 2 world wars, the 30-year war, Napoleon and the Habsburgs.
Now we will also survive the Merz!
We are from the Black Forest and I would never leave our home.
Traditions are important to us.
Governments come and go, our homeland remains.
I can't think of a nicer place in the world where our children would be better off than here in the Black Forest.
Of course with millions in the bank account in elite circles.....
I respect everyone who pulls it off.
Good luck to you!!!
We are holding our ground here and hope that we can once again say with pride:
I am happy to be German.

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mami_goes_boerse@mami_goes_boerse

5G

Personally, I'm not the biggest Dubai fan. I like it for a vacation, but not to live there. But of course I wish you all the best 🍀

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Heisterkamp@Ernie3486

5G

@mami_goes_boerse Your Vanguard sweater has arrived yet?🤔because mine hasn't

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mami_goes_boerse@mami_goes_boerse

5G

@Ernie3486 Not yet 🤷‍♀️

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Jonas@Schnurze

4G

Highly polarizing and crying at a very high level 😀

With the exception of the capital gains tax, I find the proposals understandable.

Why should crypto be tax-free when shares are not? Both or not at all

3% higher income tax rate for the richest, i.e. those who already have enough (but abolition of the solidarity surcharge), where is the significant difference? And where is the problem?

Why should real estate gains be tax-free?

The wealth tax on assets over €100 million is still missing, as a considerable burden for the people in DE 😀

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Sina@lawinvest

4G

@Schnurze Do you realize that the top tax rate already applies to entry-level salaries? "The richest" is almost the average income.
The top tax rate used to be 3 or 4 times the average income. Today it's about 1.5 times that. I have never in my working life not paid the top tax rate. Can that be right? And how can it be that we, who already pay 45%, are being asked to pay even more in order to finance the SPD's watering can?

A person who is currently at the lower end of the top tax rate can just about make ends meet for a family of four with an apartment in an urban area. In the past, that would have been a single earner, nobody would have worked and you would have ended up financing a house as well. The circumstances have shifted massively, but the politicians are only going to fleece more and more...

Why should real estate gains be tax-free? Hm, let me think, because otherwise I would add the taxes to the sales price and end up making you pay as the buyer? Or maybe because I've invested a massive amount of money with interest to create living space for others?
But so what... I'll just rent it out and add the future sales tax to the rental price

We're not that far apart when it comes to crypto. However, it will probably only work in the long term if it can also be considered as a genuine substitute for cash. That would destroy the government.

I don't understand how people can be of the opinion that it's right to be so restricted by the state in terms of wealth creation (= never being on its back) instead of being supported and then there are also people who think that's good.

Btw: I recommend reading the BverfG's decision on confiscatory taxation.

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Jonas@Schnurze

3G

@lawinvest As you know, you only pay the top marginal rate of 42%, which is now to be increased by 3%, on taxable income of around €66,000 (2024, single person). Including the tax-free allowance of €12,000, that is €78,000. So the tax only increases for every € above this amount. There are also numerous ways to reduce your taxable income. Around 4 million Germans pay the top tax rate (says Google :D). That's about 9% of the working population. So we are already talking about a minority! Of course, I agree with you that they are not necessarily "rich" in the true sense of the word. Nevertheless, they seem to me to be in a privileged position compared to the rest of society!

There are a great many people in Germany who don't reach the top tax rate in their entire lives despite working equally hard. The career starters who manage that can count themselves very lucky :)

Rental/sales prices are based on what the market makes possible. You are not creating new living space to do something good, but to achieve a return. In other words, you try to achieve the highest prices anyway. If there's a tax on top of that, you can't just pass it on, it reduces your return. I agree with you that this is the wrong incentive to combat housing shortages (new construction). With regard to gentrification processes and speculation with existing housing, I think the tax is good :)

I find it regrettable that the gap between rich and poor in our country is widening. Among other things, this seems to be due to systemic flaws that need to be adjusted. This inevitably requires redistribution (I too will just reach the top rate this year and have only been working for 3 years). Despite this burden, the high tax burden, you will not be on the state's back in the future, or are you afraid that this 3% increase will jeopardize your independence?

In the end, it's just greed - more and more money, earlier retirement, a fat house, a big car, the latest cell phone, everything has to be smart, private air travel here and there, endless consumption, etc. - that can be used as a counter-argument here. Some call it freedom, but our consumer society lives at the expense of others, who have to pay the price. We are comparatively well off here, which is why I stick to my guns: complaining at a high level!

Thanks for the recommended reading, which I'll take a look at in a few days 👍

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DoeJohnOne@DoeJohnOne

1G

@lawinvest sorry, you must have received a lot of taxpayers' money, so it shouldn't hurt you to give something back now. I also got in above the top tax rate, but at least I once studied on the state's neck, namely the most expensive degree course in Germany for the cost price of €150 per semester. If you are not prepared to give something back to society or cannot fit into a social structure financially, then you are probably in very good hands in the selfish environment in Dubai.
Unfortunately, this is the trend at the moment, but not everyone is migrating, in the worst case they are voting brown (blue)!

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Soprano@Soprano

5G

As a lawyer, emigrating is of course particularly challenging. More or less serious depending on your specialty, but basically you will be much more familiar with the laws of your home country than with any other. Certain professions, such as police officers, teachers and all administrative professions, are generally much more difficult to emigrate than, for example, skilled trades.

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Doja@Doja

5G

I'm from Italy and (currently) couldn't imagine emigrating, but when I look at your situation in DE I can understand it. Dubai wouldn't be an option for me because it just doesn't seem authentic. I really see more opportunities and quality of life in Switzerland, parts of the USA or Singapore.

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Stefan@Da_Fischi

5G

Good luck in Dubai! In my circle of friends, all of them (3) came back after 2-3 years. The main criticism was a very restricted life and little freedom if you are not Muslim and a lot of boredom if you don't want to belong to the superficial consumer society. On the other hand, they came back with a lot of savings and were able to use them to buy property that they would otherwise probably have had to pay off until they retired.

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Sina@lawinvest

4G

@Da_Fischi thank you for the impressions :)

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Dividendensammler@DividendensammIer

4G

Why polarized? DE is close to the end. Anyone who still justifies what's going on here is beyond help and completely deluded

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Leonardo@ModernMoney

4G

I don't understand why a few percent higher taxes should be a reason for a wealthy person to emigrate to Dubai. Due to the returns achieved in all these asset classes, your wealth will still continue to grow, just a little more slowly.
With growing inequality, the idea of higher taxation is understandable. However, in my opinion, there should be a progressive model that only takes effect from a certain level of wealth.
Inequality destabilizes our society and everyone should want to do something about it. Stability, legal certainty and physical security also benefit people with large fortunes. In a country like Dubai, a new ruler can quickly come to power who is perhaps not so foreigner-friendly and then you can quickly lose your assets there (keyword: legal security).
But wanting to start a new chapter abroad for professional or cultural reasons can also help you personally. I think taxes as the main reason is too short-sighted.

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Visualizza tutti 2 ulteriori risposte

The W.@thewolfofallstreetz

5G

Good luck! Oman (Muscat) is also very interesting for the winter months. Great hospitality, great weather, good food, growing foreign community, etc.

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Visualizza tutti 2 ulteriori risposte

Ale@The-Italian-investor

5G

Just remember that money is a tool to live the life you like. Choose how, with whom and where you want to live and only after that think about the tax and money part

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Ralf@edihose

5G

I'm going to the pub later, let's see if the beer still tastes good. The little man's sunshine, getting stoned and drunk 😉🍻

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Name@user24790529394

5G

As far as I know, your deposit has 8 digits? So working should be more of a fun event and you can live "somewhere".

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John@Transporter

5G

I can absolutely understand that. My children will grow up here and as soon as they are on their own two feet, we'll say goodbye and leave Germany for the Philippines....

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CD@Carpe-Diem

5G

Well, one tax in Germany is more than in Austria. KESt in Austria is 27.5%. Is that really the case? Hopefully it won't be increased.

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SatsStacker@SatsStacker

5G

Voting with your feet is absolutely legitimate.

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Martin E.@MoneyMartin

5G

You'll love it! Highly recommended. Have fun and be sure to check out the Bulgari Resort for dinner. :)

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German1@German1

5G

You're doing it right!

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Myd@myd

4G

Good luck 👍

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MO@Oppiwahn

4G

Yep, understandable. I'm also looking around, out of Europe, Switzerland as an alternative. Costa Rica, Uriguay, Paraguay are not on many people's radar. Many Europeans are there, Germans are welcome. Safe countries with sometimes better infrastructure than Germany, moderate to low taxes and good to very good healthcare. Also climatically balanced.

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TaxesAreTheft@TaxesAreTheft

4G

Hi Sina, I can highly recommend Singapore. I have friends there and who knows maybe my shares will be there in 1-2 years.

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Flight booked...