Why don't you sell, even if you don't yet have any profits to offset? It doesn't matter which comes first. Gains or losses. If you shift the money into better performing assets, you only make the gains now and then offset them. What's the point of holding it if you can't offset the losses now, but they'll be 20-30% higher in 2-3 months. I think your main problem in the past was that you didn't get rid of the stocks you were convinced of but which performed badly.
Even with buy&hold you should limit losses.
Even with buy&hold you should limit losses.
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@Multibagger Hm well, I don't know if I have such a massive problem with not being able to separate. I think I'm dealing with it realistically and don't have too much hope. My decision to sell Jenoptik, for example, came when the share was at €19 last year - I sold at €27 (and now it would even be at €33, but that doesn't really matter).
The core problem is that I couldn't do anything else with the proceeds of the sale apart from "sell low, buy high". I have enough in the clearing account to buy shares that I would really want to buy now. If I had more cash now, I wouldn't know what to do with it. The best I can do is sell shares at the all-time low and then buy the S&P 500 at the ATH. That wouldn't be really smart either, because I could have bought it cheaper a month ago.
The core problem is that I couldn't do anything else with the proceeds of the sale apart from "sell low, buy high". I have enough in the clearing account to buy shares that I would really want to buy now. If I had more cash now, I wouldn't know what to do with it. The best I can do is sell shares at the all-time low and then buy the S&P 500 at the ATH. That wouldn't be really smart either, because I could have bought it cheaper a month ago.
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•@Soprano Jenoptik I don't mean stocks like Jenoptik. I try to follow the motto: let profits run, but hedge, but strictly limit losses. And that's where I see your problem. You may find it difficult to realize that the stock market does not see an investment case that you are convinced of. And that's why you keep accepting the losses, because you think that nothing has changed in your assessment of the share. That's also just a guess. So please don't be angry.
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@Multibagger To be honest, I agree with him a little. I've already told you to sell things and you just seem to have problems selling stocks that are in the red but to which you are tied or still have a case. Fundamentally, I would just ask myself whether you want to hold the stocks like this and if not, I think the loss pot also goes over the year. My minus does not equal bad. My Sofi was also in the red for a long time before a 400% was made. The question is simply whether everything is right and sometimes it's not. Carl Zeiss, for example, I sold down brutally a long time ago. The market worked, but the company didn't and it would have been better off in other stocks. The pot of losses then gave me back the taxes I had paid and in the end I was almost breakeven. The rest of the position is more for fun and doesn't bother me at all. You should just do the same. With UNH, a quarterly report shouldn't persuade you to continue holding the stock. With PayPal, the value shouldn't keep you unless that was your case. Etc. In short, use the money elsewhere
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•@topicswithhead I would also reduce my individual values. I've been doing that for a while now. Full diversification starts at just under 21 stocks and 30 is too many in the end. Not only in terms of my capacity to invest, but also in itself. The stocks that go up never have such a big weight in the end because there was never a lot of money in them. That's why I'm now at 20 to 25 stocks plus ETF. The ETF should make up 50% in the long term and in the 20 stocks plus max. 5 trading stocks I still have a lot of leeway to continue my hobby.
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•@Multibagger Yes, the way you say it now is true. But that's where the question arises: why should I sell if my conviction is still there? I only sell when the case no longer stands. And that's often only when the figures are really bad, not because someone has come up with a narrative. Because these narratives are often not true.
The same question goes to @topicswithhead I remind you how you held on to Alphabet (rightly so) because you were convinced of the figures and products and you completely ignored the narrative and the bad momentum.
By the way, what you write in the second post is pretty much what I intend to do.
The same question goes to @topicswithhead I remind you how you held on to Alphabet (rightly so) because you were convinced of the figures and products and you completely ignored the narrative and the bad momentum.
By the way, what you write in the second post is pretty much what I intend to do.
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@Multibagger I also always find it difficult to part with stocks that are performing badly. Especially if you hope that the company will turn around at some point. My portfolio includes $BAYN (Bayer). I was down 70% at times (now 50%). Somehow I'm hoping that they will finally overcome the legal disputes in the USA and then things will pick up again. I might buy some more to push down my average price. 🫣
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•@Soprano but you don't really want to compare $GOOGL with $JEN. They are worlds apart. As a buy and hold investor, you can still say that $GOOGL is a top company like $MSFT, but $JEN is a chip shop by comparison.
I am perhaps much more consistent in this respect. I'm not a buy and hold investor either. I buy a lot of companies because I think the current investment case is good. If they don't develop as expected, I get rid of them after 2-3 months at the latest, even if I don't think the investment case has changed. However, they are mostly small caps or mid caps at most.
I am perhaps much more consistent in this respect. I'm not a buy and hold investor either. I buy a lot of companies because I think the current investment case is good. If they don't develop as expected, I get rid of them after 2-3 months at the latest, even if I don't think the investment case has changed. However, they are mostly small caps or mid caps at most.
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•@NichtRelevant You see, and I don't understand that. A share that falls 50% has to rise 100% just to reach my purchase price again. I think that's totally crazy. I'd be better off selling at 20-30% down at the latest and trying another company that might have better momentum.
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•@Multibagger I'm beyond help. 😅
Fortunately, the Bayer scenario is very rare.
Fortunately, the Bayer scenario is very rare.
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•@Soprano Well, if your case still stands, you should of course hold the share, but that's not true for most people. Much more often the case is simply well spoken or otherwise. With your shares, however, I actually find it difficult to defend the case without having heard everyone. I have a very negative view of UNH, PayPal and AFX, but that doesn't mean you're wrong. Rather, you can check if you are still on your case by asking yourself why the market is so bearish on stocks. Well, I'm only an internet colleague here anyway and of course only wish them ternbaggers 😘
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