Pro Bitcoin motion by the AfD

@Thomas_1963 I wonder which democracy? 😁

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Ernst@remphase

@Emdy The democracy that grants you writing such senseless posts. ;)

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Tom Rümmelein@Tom180702

@Emdy you apparently don't live here in Germany. Then you might as well save your opinion :)

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@Tom180702 Why directly throw ignorant accusations into the room? And I don't know that we are already at the you little pony!
So when you write something like that, you want to shut me up? 🤣

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Tom Rümmelein@Tom180702

@Emdy You probably need to go back to 6th grade to understand what a democracy is. I don't really care if we're already on a first name basis, what do you want to do?

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CrashBurner@Psychedelic_Sunflower

@Tom180702 Ok then I'll go back to 6th grade 😃👍
And you need to wake up... I don't see popular rule in Germany, more like controlled politics.

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Onkel K.@Herakles1986

@Thomas_1963 You are right, but if the AfD wins the elections at the latest, they will reverse everything. The current government is driving everything against the wall anyway.

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NEWT@SteelAnacott

A tendentially fascist party that does something for cryptocurrencies remains a tendentially fascist party.

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jkb92@jkb92

@SteelAnacott Word! We look to America with horror and sympathize with a party that longs for such conditions.

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NEWT@SteelAnacott

@jkb92 Unbelievable but unfortunately true. And they don't even try to hide it anymore. At a panel discussion with well-known and less well-known people from the scene, Martin Sellner, when asked whether he would abolish the party system once he himself was the sovereign, replied succinctly: "Yes."

That's what you get if you vote for this party because of its pro-crypto stance.

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jkb92@jkb92

@SteelAnacott I'm always a bit concerned when I realize what kind of tendency prevails here in the forum.

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Hendan@Hendan

@SteelAnacott oh no, the fascists 😭😭😭

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NEWT@SteelAnacott

@jkb92 Apparently some people actually have to experience it for themselves to understand. Sad.

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If a proposal is a reasonable one, it doesn't matter where it comes from. This whiny firewall posturing is just ridiculous and ultimately harms everyone. If they then come up with some crazy draft legislation against the FDGO, you can still vote against it.

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Yoshika 🦋.@Yoshika

You don't shake a hand that undermines the foundations of democracy just because it looks clean for a moment.

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Robert@Baraccus

@Yoshika You mean the parties that changed the constitution by voting out the Bundestag? The ones who acted exactly against the will of the voters? The voters had elected a Bundestag that would no longer have agreed to this. Change my mind.

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Ein(Invest)Horn@Herr-Horn

@Baraccus I wasn't thrilled about it either, but it happened within the democratic framework and was legally legitimate. I can only partially agree that it was against the will of the voters. 1) I wouldn't say across the board that the new Bundestag wouldn't have agreed to it. However, the AfD or the Left would have had better negotiating power and would have had more weight in the decision-making process and possibly negotiated one of their most important points into it. Since it was put together as a package (I think that's totally cheeky, but that's also legitimate), the Greens also tended to give in because they wanted the infrastructure billions and the climate protection commitment. 2) The majority of people voted in polls in favor of reforming the debt brake. Almost 80% were in favor of more debt for infrastructure and 66% for more debt for the Bundeswehr.

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Karl Marc@Marc_Karl

Such proposals are used to attract voters, greed quickly takes hold, and then such parties are still considered progressive, even though they only act in their own interests and the elitist power interests of foreign elites. Björn Höcke leads the fastest way to expropriation.

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View all 3 further answers

FICK DIE AFD

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Ace_Tobi@AceTobi

@portfolio_maestro_4200 🤡

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Alfred@Alfred16

@portfolio_maestro_4200 Then continue to have fun with the concrete bollards at the Christmas market and all other beautiful things and customs.

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income_engineer_2878@income_engineer_2878

@Alfred16 ne again the left is to blame for terror groups
Because the left has ruled so much in the last 20 years
You're right

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17H

@portfolio_maestro_4200

The left is in government. SPD has been in government for how many years?

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jkb92@jkb92

But if the afd demands it, there's a good chance that merz will soon demand it too haha

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Damian@Divalo

@jkb92 haha 😂👍👍

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@jkb92 and then he reiterates that the CDU/CSU has no overlaps whatsoever with the AfD😁

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John@Transporter

The AfD should propose that taxes on share profits, dividends, etc. should generally be abolished if the holding period is longer than 12 months. Alternatively, it should campaign for an increase in the tax-free allowance for savers.

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@Transporter it would be enough if they at least left the pensioners alone... These double taxes paid in Germany should be banned! Politicians should/must pay taxes. About equality and all that. All hypocrites and liars

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@Transporter Alternatively, they could simply close their party

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Staatsmann@Staatsmann

@Emdy There is no double taxation for pensioners.
No matter how often you repeat it, it is still not true.

There are old-age relief rates and pension contributions from gross (untaxed money).

And then there are the income limits like for every other citizen.

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John@Transporter

@portfolio_maestro_4200 So that we are then completely governed by the left? We need an antithesis.

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Ein(Invest)Horn@Herr-Horn

@Transporter yes yes, in 1933 it also needed an antithesis

Completely left-wing government?
Did someone shit in your head? CDU and spd as government
30% afd
Completely left-wing 😂

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Alfred@Alfred16

@Transporter First enough people have to vote for the AFD so that they can do something, so far many are still voting for the parties that tax them 5 to 7 times and it's still not enough. You don't have to understand why people keep choosing their executioner.

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John@Transporter

@Alfred16 Reasonable approaches for the citizen are unfortunately not wanted in Germany...

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@Transporter Where in Germany as a whole did we have a left-wing state? Ok, from the AfD/CSU position, black-red is of course left-wing... Regarding the main comment: I would also like to see an increase in the tax-free allowance for savers, as well as a reduction in the share profits of the little man for private protection. I would only accept a complete tax reduction on financial gains if the contribution assessment ceiling is increased (preferably eliminated). Then: everyone pays into a pension system and the two-tier health insurance system should be merged, then I would be satisfied. Otherwise, the distribution of wealth will drift further apart, with many households barely being able to save anything and those who have the luxury of making their money work for them being able to increase their wealth (almost) tax-free. Conclusion: Progressive taxation and incentives for wealth accumulation for working wealth creators. The AfD is a more neoliberal party than the FDP coupled with isolationist nationalism. To what extent they would manage to reduce the powder keg of "wealth inequality" is beyond me. Simply reduce taxes in general? Promotes the powder keg.

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View all 4 further answers

@Staatsmann Unfortunately, that's not true across the board... But I realize that. Everything for the state, everything for the club. Carry on.

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Staatsmann@Staatsmann

@Emdy Today, pension contributions are paid from gross. In other words, untaxed money.

Those who used to pay pension contributions from their net income now have the age relief rates, which exempt pensions from tax on a flat-rate basis.

You could understand that if you wanted to.
But of course you can also just moan and accuse others of obeying the authorities.

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

I'm just saying firewall

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Leon@Investingyoung

@Tenbagger2024 I'm just saying undemocratic

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ad_absurdum@ad_absurdum

@Investingyoung I just say democracy not understood

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Alfred@Alfred16

@Investingyoung I also say democracy not understood.

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Robert@Baraccus

@Alfred16 I say "our democracy" has forgotten that eliminating/excluding opposition has always been the tool of choice of fascists.

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Robert@Baraccus

@ad_absurdum "our democracy"

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RenaTess@RenaTess

Wolf in sheep's clothing on the hunt for voters

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luki666@lukilouie

I understand that here (and everywhere) nobody really wants to pay taxes. Same here. I put time into my tax return every year to pay less. It feels like honestly earned money is being taken away from you. And what do you get back? *wink wink*
If you don't depend on the state to support you with education, transport, housing and food, that's easy to say. But other people rely on taxes to support the welfare state. Self-inflicted or not. It's like the stock market, we can't all win. Society has always been built on inequality.
And let's be honest, if I make my 50k through bitcoin, I've done absolutely nothing except bet on a price. Just give away your x% like every other person who earns their income from their 9 to 5 job and you still got the 1000x better deal. Or don't do it, but then please don't have health insurance either and pay for your medication out of your own pocket. Your child wants student loans, nope. Do that with your bitcoins.

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Ricola@Roccola601

@lukilouie I think that's a very valid point.
I believe that it would be much more pleasant for many people to have more transparency and communication about what happens with their tax deductions.
The media almost only reports on tax wastage, which builds up frustration (and is absolutely justified) - but if the tax money was invested in meaningful projects focused on exactly the topics mentioned and this was somehow made transparent, fewer people would probably be worried that something was being "taken away" from them.

At the end of the day, we always want a purpose.

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Daniel@Daniel1212

Well... Most of the money you invest has already been taxed at least once anyway. And you don't get any losses back. You can always carry forward losses. Nevertheless, I don't quite agree with your argument.
Objectively speaking, there is no reason at all why the state should take taxes from you on capital gains. Or can someone explain to me why exactly they are helping themselves here?

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Mr-Strategyless@Mr-Strategyless

Germany should have been pro-Bitcoin for a long time. Another point where we are being passed by, but if you look at the German "experts", you quickly realize that Germany itself has a problem understanding the topic of investment😂

Even as a member of the CDU/CSU, this "voting against everything the AFD likes purely on principle" really gets on my nerves - you can't do anything with it erreichen🤷🏻‍♂️

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“Lloyd_is_water!“@Ash

Wow, I'm honestly surprised - that actually sounds like a well thought-out and substantial proposal from the AfD. 🤔 Wouldn't have thought that there was so much understanding of Bitcoin and the technology behind it.

However, I fully agree with you: the "dinosaurs" in the Bundestag are likely to reflexively block the topic again, simply because it comes from the AfD. Instead of dealing with the content, they will probably once again bring out the well-known prejudices about Bitcoin as an "object of speculation" or "energy guzzler". 🙄

Wasn't there once a Bitcoin lobby or initiative that tried to position the issue objectively in the Bundestag? Somehow that never really seems to have fallen on fertile ground.

In the end, as you say, the project will probably never come to fruition anyway, as people in Germany are too much in line with the ECB. And Madame Lagarde recently emphasized again how "dangerous" she thinks Bitcoin is... 😅

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DocTrader@value_crafter_1628

@Ash That's exactly how it is :)
In my opinion, this is one of the biggest problems with politics in Germany. It's never just about the content, it's always about something Parteispielchen🤷‍♂️

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“Lloyd_is_water!“@Ash

@stefan_21 Honestly, you wouldn't want to know where we would be today as a nation if decisions had been made based on facts and science rather than personal or party political motives ...

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Thom@Depot_7777

I also fear that sleeping dogs will be awakened, especially since everything always has to be made anti-AFD, especially when the state needs vast sums of money for all sorts of things... Let's continue to hope that our government has other problems...

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Think of the record national debt. Only those who have something on deposit can pay. We'll have a look around..... Unfortunately, I'm pessimistic.😖

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risk_taker_2194@risk_taker_2194

Bitcoin? The giant Ponzi scheme. Fits in well with the AfD. Both can go.

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Alexander_Bitcoin@Alexander_Bitcoin

I like it: https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-1117520

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Alexander_Bitcoin@Alexander_Bitcoin

This also results in another addition: https://www.btc-echo.de/news/bitcoin-haltefrist-gefahr-wahrscheinlich-abschaffung-217644/

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TotallyLost@TotallyLost

Welcome to Austria, here it has long been abolished...
And again we have something more in common 😘

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Ein(Invest)Horn@Herr-Horn

@TotallyLost after all, the exchange into stablecoins is tax-free in your country... I very much doubt that it would be the same for us😂

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Without any political judgment, this is a very good proposal, but it is not a kindergarten club either. I am not at all surprised that the AfD is calling for tax exemption for Bitcoin profits, as it is neoliberal in its top party structure and at its core, and the connection to Trump is more than obvious (ultimately, the party was formed by Western professors from the anti-euro economy). The dynamic in the party is that there are many currents that are very opposed to each other, but currently they all benefit from each other. I don't think Höcke and Weidel, for example, are similar in their political orientations. I am of the opinion that Bitcoin should be taxed like financial products.

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Dukke@Dukke

A Nazi party, nothing more. All offers that come from a Nazi party should be rejected.

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

A party that is struggling with illegal funds is campaigning for less registration. A rogue who thinks evil. I'm surprised that the CDU didn't switch its black accounts to BTC a long time ago.

But let's get to the point. Of course the proposal is not bad, but do the other parties have anything against BTC? At first it sounds as if the other parties have something against it and, of course, they are shooting against the central banks and the euro for no reason. I simply assume that they have zero interest in BTC but want to fish for cheap votes. Central banks and the ability to generate money are intrinsically important for a competitive economy. Why was China able to expand so brutally? Because they invested on credit and the tactic is working. This would not have been possible with BTC alone.

I also see the ambivalent desired role of BTC as problematic. If it is a currency, then there should be no holding period. If it is an object of speculation, then the holding period should apply, but then it is not a currency and not relevant for the state.

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

@devnerd_daddy if you want to imply that BTC is only good for illegal activities, I can tell you that Bitcoin is used much less for illegal purposes in percentage terms than the euro or dollar.
Yes, some other parties have something against BTC. Among others, the CDU/CSU, which introduced a great proposal last year: https://getqu.in/kVA3ic/

I also think that the AfD is purely on a mission to win over voters. They will probably have learned from Trump. He has no idea about BTC either, but wants to be the "crypto president". In terms of regulation, Trump has nevertheless brought about some positive developments in the USA.

The question is not always what is good for the state or the collective. Of course it's great for states to print money.
The question is what is good for the individual. Is it great if your own purchasing power is devalued year after year? Is it great that you are virtually forced to speculate in order to transport your purchasing power into the future? Is it good that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer? I don't think so :)
Bitcoin is a counter-design and it is there for everyone. You just have to use it for yourself.

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@stefan_21 No, don't get me wrong. I was joking about the illegal activities because the AfD, together with the CDU, are the masters of financial cover-ups.

Of course, losing purchasing power is not nice, but a state that is not flexible while the rest of the world is has lost out in the competition. Used correctly, however, this is not a multiplier for the rich-poor gap. A system without money multiplication only works if everyone abides by the same rules. A bit like communism, which only works if everyone behaves fairly 😄

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