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Derivatives Trading Part 1

Here we Go!


First of all, I would like to deal with what I consider to be the simplest and least risky form of derivatives, as they are relatively easy to trade and track without much effort.

In general, almost all forms of derivatives are available as calls (for rising prices) and puts (for falling prices).

So let's start today with the discount calls. I currently have 2 of them in my portfolio. More on this later.

Discount calls always relate to a specific underlying (here I am concentrating on shares).

There are always 2 fixed values. A lower limit (strike price) and a maximum limit (cap), so to speak.

Discount calls are suitable for those who expect a value to move sideways or, in the case of the call, only a moderate increase until the end of the term.

As there are many fans of $NOVO B (-1.85%) my first example is for this share.


The call below, which I bought today😉 , has a strike price of DKK 400 and a cap of DKK 450.

The term is until 19.12.25. That is also the crucial day. The value of the bill will be decided on this day. Anything that happens before then is of no interest. The maximum repayment would be DKK 50, i.e. around €0.67. This would be the case if $NOVO B (-1.85%) would be at least DKK 450 on the record date. That would be around 80% of the current purchase price of the certificate of €0.37.

This means that since the share is currently at exactly this level, you would make a profit of 80%, even if the share is no higher in December than it is now. This is paid for by the fact that even if the share doubles, you won't get any more

On the other hand, a total loss can occur if the share is below DKK 400 on December 19.

If it is between DKK 400 and DKK 450 on that day, you will receive the exact difference between the basis and the actual price. The breakeven for this position is therefore around DKK 430 at today's call price. The share should at least be at this level on 19.12. In my opinion, this is a very realistic opportunity. Of course, you can also sell the derivative in the meantime. The more the share rises above the cap, the closer the price of the call comes to the maximum amount.

I always trade discount calls when I'm not sure which way the share will go. I always have the premise that I expect a return of at least 10% per month, which is the case with a 7-month term.

It can also be much riskier. You can see this in the 2nd attached trade that I made yesterday.


This is a discount call on $PYPL (-3.22%) . This also has a term until 17.12. The base price here is 85$ and the cap is 90$. The maximum repayment here is 5$, i.e. around 4.25€. Calculated on the purchase price, this means a maximum possible return of 270%. To achieve this, however, the share price must rise by 25% by December. This would correspond to a leverage of 11 for other derivatives. However, without an interim KO.

Even if interim price losses do not mean the end, you should also work with SL here. However, I would not deposit these with the broker, as the risk of being stopped out if the issuer plays around is relatively high.

I always have a stop of 20% in my head, but I keep it flexible and look at how the share price has fallen.


So enough for now with part 1, I hope I was able to give you some information. You are welcome to ask questions, or those who notice something that is still important to mention are welcome to add to it.

I'm not a finfluencer and anything but omniscient 😉😂

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11 Comments

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It is also important to mention that certificates are debt securities and are therefore subject to counterparty risk. If the issuing bank goes bankrupt, the certificate is included in the insolvency estate and can therefore expire worthless.
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@SemiGrowth That is correct, but I am not aware of any cases where this has happened. But I would also only use larger emmitents.
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@Multibagger But you should be familiar with Lehmann brothers.
And at Credit Suisse you also came away empty-handed with certain financial products.
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@7Trader I am aware and familiar with both of these. But both were not about normal derivatives that I trade
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@Multibagger Among those affected were investors who had bought Lehman certificates through banks such as Citibank, Commerzbank or Volksbanken.
How can you rule out such a case for "your" derivatives?
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@7Trader I can't rule anything out, but I only trade certificates from the biggest issuers. MS, JPM, SG, UNI CREDIT, HSBC, DEUTSCHE BANK, if one of them goes bust, the financial system worldwide has other problems than the €200-500 I invest in trading.
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Very nice article and I also like the examples 👍! I'd love more of these...
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How do you trade your derivatives?
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@SeidoPacero most of them via Flatex. Some also via TR. Consors also works for discounts, as you don't normally trade them that often. But Consors is outrageously expensive. I prefer to use Flatex because it offers all trading venues and issuers at decent prices and also all the order options I want to use. The only drawback is that they don't yet offer share savings plans. But apart from that, you can also trade US shares relatively cheaply directly in the USA.
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Don't see the point of derivatives. They are just packaged options, forwards, futures,... and the bank makes money. It's almost exclusively the comfort factor, or restrictions at the broker, that motivate you to buy struckis. And even then, the fundamentals and underlying values should be understood before embarking on this adventure...
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@GeldGenie I agree with you on the last sentence. For me, the point of derivatives is that I can outperform the market many times over if I make targeted use of the various products. However, I also clearly state that I trade on the stock market as a hobby. I have a lot of experience
(positive and negative) since I started my banking apprenticeship 40 years ago. I didn't trade for many years because my priorities were elsewhere. I started again in April '23 with a starting capital of €3,000. After 10 years at the latest, I would like to turn that into €100,000 without making any major deposits. You can't achieve that with a pure b&h or ETF strategy.
That's why everyone has to find their own way on the stock market that they feel comfortable with. I am not trying to persuade anyone here to trade in derivatives. There are also solid stocks like $3350 😂😂😂 with which you can find your happiness.
In any case, I wish you every success with your strategy.
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