2Wk·

Best world ETFs for the Swiss

Hello everyone,


I would like to start a discussion about the best #etf s for the #schweiz to start. Let's start with the most important basics:


  • Dividends are taxed as income in Switzerland (even for accumulating ETFs). So ultimately it doesn't matter for tax purposes whether you have a distributing or accumulating ETF.
  • Access to American ETFsas not a member of the EU and therefore access to significantly cheaper ETF alternatives (e.g. $VT (-0.96%) ).
  • Agreement between the USA and Switzerland reduces the US withholding tax from 30% to 15%. The remaining 15% can be claimed in the tax return for American ETFs.
  • In the case of high to very high assets, ETFs with an American fund domicile may be taxed by the IRS for tax purposes.
  • In the case of inheritance it could be a documentary/bureaucratic challenge for the surviving dependants with the IRS to transfer the ETFs with American brokers (classic #ikbr ).
  • From a tax perspective, Irish ETFs are the most interesting after American ETFs due to the agreement between Ireland and the USA to reduce withholding tax from 30% to 15%. However, the remaining 15% cannot be claimed on the tax return.


For some years now I have been investing in the MSCI World $XDWD (-0.98%) (World Industrialized Countries) and not too long ago the AC World $XMAW (-0.98%) (All World). This is because, in addition to my Swiss broker (#saxobank ) and #ikbr my German bank (#consorsbank ) and Amundi and Xtracker ETFs can be saved there free of charge, which would be obsolete due to the low costs of Saxo and/or IKBR. In addition, these are accumulating and I would prefer to save in distributing ETFs. With a TER of 0.19% and 0.25%, these are okay, but certainly not the best ($VT (-0.96%) or $at 0.06%).


Irish alternatives would be the $WEBG (-0.9%) (TER 0.7%, distributing, All-World), $UBU7 (-1.06%) (TER 0.10%, distributing, MSCI-World), $VDEV (-1.09%) (TER 0.10%, distributing, industrialized countries) or $XDWL (-1.07%) (TER 0.12%, distributing, MSCI-World and counterpart to my accumulating $XDWD (-0.98%) ).


Which ETF do you save in if you are a Swiss resident? Which ETF would you save in if you were in the Swiss "luxury" situation?

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40 Comments

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@Iwanowitsch not in German-speaking Switzerland 👍🏻
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@Tojasoku You're not Swiss 🤫
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@Iwanowitsch Austrian, right. But I've been living and working in Switzerland for years, so I sometimes adopt certain words 👍🏻
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@Iwanowitsch What exactly is your problem? I'm not French either, so why salute me when I live in German-speaking Switzerland?

It's hardly going to be up to you, and as long as I'm an absolutely necessary specialist in a field where there aren't enough Swiss people, it's unlikely to happen 😉
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@Tojasoku I will now block you. What are your last words?
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@Iwanowitsch

Hello Kate,

I wish you all the best and hope that you can get rid of your intolerant attitude one day. 👍🏻 If a "Salü" from a fellow citizen already bothers you because of his origin, I don't want to know how you live with the more than 25% foreigners in Switzerland, btw due to the immigration rules mostly working professionals.
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@Kundenservice I would ask you to take such unnecessary hostility seriously, thank you very much.
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@Tojasoku you can also delete comments under his post yourself
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@Smudeo Thanks for pointing that out 🙂 But I think customer service should see that, because it's unnecessary on this platform.
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View all 15 further answers
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The $XMAW is an ESG variant of an All World ETF (environmental, social, corporate governance). I don't know if this is intentional, but if not, you may be losing out on returns here, so I would go for a direct All World.
My favorite is the All World from Vanguard, partly because of Vanguard's corporate philosophy. I think Invesco also offers the same All World with a low TER, so it can also be an interesting alternative. I also have the $WEBG with a second broker. As you have already written, it has a very good TER of 0.07 for an All Country ETF. @cashwithhead has also written an article on the advantages of Amundi as a European issuer.
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@TheStoic Thanks for the great article. I plan to sell the $XMAW and switch to another ETF. Fortunately I don't have to pay capital gains tax.
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I follow MustachianPost and ThePoorSwiss as US ETFs are cheaper and more tax efficient than Irish domiciled ETFs.
My main investment is the ETF VT via IBKR.
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@SwissStasher I am also very much inclined to go down this route. I'm not sure yet whether I should liquidate current positions and then reallocate or just leave them. In theory, it would be worth it in the long term.
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@Tojasoku
You can also make a compromise, for example, leave your current all-world ETF and save in VT to diversify your broker/ETF. This is how I currently do it: my old custody account contains VWRL, the new custody account VT.
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@SwissStasher good idea 👍🏻
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FTSE All world, dist, Vanguard, Irland
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@MWS So you are accepting the slight tax disadvantages of Irish ETFs due to the complicated American bureaucracy, right? Where do you save/buy the ETFs?
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@Tojasoku Yes, exactly! I opted for easy peasy instead of complete optimization.

Recently switched from SQ and Degiro to Neon because I think the whole package is great: account and broker
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Additionally $CHDVD to exclude currency risks.
I thought Swiss is capital gain tax free. Or?
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@fund_mastermind_364 ETF and Shares gain is Tax free, correct!

But u have to pay Tax on the dividends
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not for ETF acc
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Very interesting discussion! A question about distributing ETFs: Why are they an attractive option for you?

Accumulating ETFs would make more sense in the asset accumulation phase with the aim of achieving financial freedom, as they reinvest automatically and thus minimize transaction costs. In my opinion, distributing ETFs are more worthwhile if the dividends are actually needed for current expenses or if tax reasons play a role in certain countries (which is not the case for CH, as distributions and reinvestments are treated equally).

I currently use accumulating ETFs myself, as they allow me to make better use of the compound interest effect in the long term. How do you see it?

My goal is also financial freedom in 10 years' time, when I'm 51.
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