1Yr·

Junior depot

Investing money for children


Friends,


As I would like to invest something for the future for my three-year-old godson in addition to material gifts, I have looked into the alternatives.


Disclaimer I: I'm not a tax consultant, I googled my knowledge together and used sample calculations etc. based on my own knowledge - so please feel free to challenge me


Disclaimer II: After I have finished my research, I have the Post from @freakyfinance
saw . who had already looked at the whole thing in a similar form a year ago (thanks for that). However, there is a different focus there in part, so be sure to read it as well.


Tdlr: Optimal tax savings with a custody account in the child's name, but with very high amounts there may be problems with health insurance and BAfÖG. If the custody account is invested in the parents' name, you forgo the tax savings, but have fewer problems with health insurance and BAföG & can give away up to EUR 400,000 per child tax-free. As a "third" person, this is generally difficult - it is better to talk to the parents in advance. If a custody account is invested in a child, then profits should be realized and reinvested in order to minimize the tax burden.


Alternative 1: Custody account investment in own name

A separate custody account is set up with a broker in your own name, into which you can then pay and invest as you wish. After a certain cut-off date, the custody account can then be transferred/given as a gift. However, gift tax is then also payable by the recipient, as this is a third party - according to the law - and applies even to very small amounts (from EUR 20,000). In addition, since you formally have your own securities account, you are also subject to your own taxation; if the saver's lump sum has already been used up, the tax gnaws at the longed-for compound interest for the godchild.


The disadvantages clearly outweigh the advantages:


  • Gift tax (from EUR 20,000)
  • Capital gains tax (if exhausted)
  • The custody account only belongs to the recipient after the gift has been made
  • If other people wish to make a contribution, they must rely on the goodwill of the custody account holder.



Alternative 2: Parents set up a custody account for the child

In this case, the custody account belongs to the child for legal and tax purposes, and the parents manage it in trust until the child reaches the age of 18. In addition to the saver's lump sum (EUR 1,000), the basic tax-free allowance (EUR 11,604 in 2024) also benefits here, as the child does not yet have any taxable income. In this respect, up to EUR 11,604 of tax-free investment income could be generated per year. A non-assessment certificate must be applied for from the tax office every 3 years. However, the deposit assets are also taken into account when applying for BAföG at a later date; in this case, the entitlement does not apply from assets of EUR 15,000. Furthermore, as soon as the child's annual income (including capital income) exceeds EUR 5,820 (EUR 485 per month), it is no longer covered by the parents' health insurance. Additional information for high performers: a child costs around EUR 110 - 150 per month in private health insurance.


Advantages:

  • Tax-saving effect (and therefore faster asset accumulation)
  • Custody account belongs directly to child and can therefore be part of financial education
  • One face to the customer: one custody account that everyone can transfer to


Disadvantages:

  • Parents must have a certain level of financial education
  • Complexity: BAföG, family insurance...e.g. mini-job on the side more difficult if higher capital income is already achieved (health insurance company may cancel co-insurance)



Alternative 3: Parents' custody account investment

Similar to 1, except that the parents have set up an additional custody account in their name for the child (it is generally advisable to set up a separate custody account to ensure clear separation). Friends and relatives can then pay into this account and the parents then invest it. The custody account is then transferred on a certain date, whereby - due to the close relationship - up to EUR 400,000 can be gifted tax-free. The disadvantage is that the child's tax-free allowances are not used; however, there is no need to worry about the child being excluded from health insurance due to the high capital income. It can also be advantageous for BAfÖG, as it is not the parents' assets but their income (including capital income) that is taken into account.


Advantages:

  • Simplicity
  • One custody account that everyone can transfer to
  • Tax-free gift of up to EUR 400,000


Disadvantages:

  • Parents must have a certain level of financial education
  • Capital gains tax (if used up by themselves)
  • The custody account only belongs to the recipient after the gift has been made



Where to open the junior custody account:

Finanzfluss recently published a Video in which the best junior custody account providers were presented. The current results of the comparison can be found >hier< to be found. The winners here are currently ING - in particular due to the free ETF savings plan and the minimum savings rate and finvesto, the latter probably due to the affiliate program ;) - Fun, here the costs for the one-off investment are probably particularly low, which could be particularly interesting for taking advantage of tax benefits (keyword profit realization and reinvest), but more on this in the later numerical example. Since I personally don't know finvesto, I would open the custody account with ING.


Numerical example I:

Now that we have decided to invest something for our little ones, we need to optimize the whole thing again within the constructs. To make the various options more tangible, I have brought along a few numerical examples:


The following sample calculation is based on the following meta-premises:


  • Investment period: 18 years (securities account will be closed when you reach the age of majority)
  • Investment amount p.a: EUR 3,000 (child benefit 2023 x 12)
  • Base interest rate for advance lump sum calculation: 2.55% (base 2023)
  • Investment construct: ACWI ETF ($ISAC & $VWRL ), equity allocation: > 51 %
  • Tax exemption for advance lump sum calculation: 30%
  • Yield forecast: accumulating ETF = 7 %, distributing = 5 % + 2 % dividend
  • Tax rate: 26.375 % (capital gains tax + solidarity surcharge)


Option 1:

Depot to child invested & accumulating ETF / results:

  • Deposits: EUR 54,000
  • Deposit value: EUR 105,567
  • Settled via advance lump sum: EUR 12,668
  • Taxable profit on sale: EUR 38,899
  • Taxes: EUR 10,260
  • Amount paid out: EUR 95,307



Option 2:

Deposit to parents invested & accumulating ETF / results:

  • Deposits: EUR 54,000
  • Deposit value: EUR 100,914
  • Settled via advance lump sum: EUR 12,309
  • Taxable profit on sale: EUR 34,605
  • Taxes: EUR 9,127
  • Amount paid out: EUR 91,787


Option 3:

Deposit to child invested & distributing ETF / results:

  • Deposits: EUR 68,105 (reinvestment of the dividend)
  • Deposit value: EUR 104,642
  • Settled via advance lump sum: EUR 0 (if dividend > advance lump sum = 0)
  • Taxable profit on sale: EUR 36,537
  • Taxes: EUR 9,637
  • Amount paid out: EUR 95,005


Option 4:

Deposit to child invested & accumulating ETF. Profits are realized and reinvested at the end of each year in order to make greater use of the tax-free allowance (trading fee EUR 10 p.a.) / Results:

  • Deposits: EUR 105,237 (reinvestment of profits)
  • Deposit value: EUR 105,237
  • Settled via advance lump sum: EUR 0 (if book profits > advance lump sum = 0)
  • Taxable profit on sale: EUR 0
  • Taxes: EUR 0
  • Amount paid out: EUR 105,237


Conclusion:

As expected, the parent deposit option is the worst, but the discount is smaller than I would have expected. Here you have to assess for yourself whether the insurance against the risk that your child will blow the money on your head at 18 is worth EUR 4,000 - 14,000. Options 1 & 2 are not much different, mainly due to the current base interest rate of 2.55%, which is included in the upfront lump sum calculation at 70%, resulting in a similar tax rate to a 2% dividend ETF. The lower the prime rate, the better the option of the distributing ETF in direct comparison. Option 4 generates the most effort, as profits have to be realized once a year, but this is well remunerated. If this strategy is chosen, it is important to opt for a custody account with low one-off investment fees.


Numerical example II:

Here, the custody accounts are held until the end of the 35th year of life and then liquidated, e.g. for a house purchase. The assumptions as above apply, with the following adjustments:


  • Investment period: 36 years
  • Investment amount until the end of 20: EUR 3,000 p.a.
  • Investment amount 21-25: EUR 0 (studies)
  • Investment amount 26-36: EUR 6,000 p.a. (work & increase in savings rate)
  • From 26, you start working and therefore no longer have a basic tax-free allowance.



Option 1:

Deposit to child invested & accumulating ETF / results:

  • Deposits: EUR 123,000
  • Deposit value: EUR 453,632
  • Settled via advance lump sum: EUR 86,334
  • Taxable profit on sale: EUR 244,298
  • Taxes: EUR 64,434
  • Amount paid out: EUR 389,198



Option 2:

Deposit to parents invested & accumulating ETF / results:

  • Deposits: EUR 123,000
  • Deposit value: EUR 428,196
  • Settled via advance lump sum: EUR 81,539
  • Taxable profit on sale: EUR 223,658
  • Taxes: EUR 58,990
  • Amount paid out: EUR 369,207


Option 3:

Deposit to child invested & distributing ETF / results:

  • Deposits: EUR 218,735 (reinvestment of the dividend)
  • Deposit value: EUR 447,238
  • Settled via advance lump sum: EUR 0 (if dividend > advance lump sum = 0)
  • Taxable profit on sale: EUR 228,503
  • Taxes: EUR 60,268
  • Amount paid out: EUR 386,970


Option 4:

Deposit to child invested & accumulating ETF. Profits are realized at the end of each year and reinvested in order to make greater use of the tax-free allowance (trading fee EUR 10 p.a.) until the start of working life (26), thereafter no more profit realization per year. / Results:

  • Deposits: EUR 254,718 (reinvestment of profits until 26)
  • Deposit value: EUR 468,841
  • Settled via advance lump sum: EUR 54,066 (years 26 to 36)
  • Taxable profit on sale: EUR 160,057
  • Taxes: EUR 42,215
  • Amount paid out: EUR 426,626


Conclusion:

The parental custody account option is more painful here, with reductions of EUR 20,000 to EUR 57,000 compared to the other options. The clear winner here is the tax-optimized investment (option 4). The differences between options 1 & 3 are negligible and can swing in one direction or the other if the base interest rate changes.


Special case: transferring a parental custody account to a child:

Of course, you could now come up with the idea of simply giving your own assets to the child at birth and then letting them grow tax-free so that you can use them again later. Especially as EUR 400,000 per parent can be transferred to the child. However, this entails a number of risks, including the fact that a gift from the child to the parents is only possible up to EUR 20,000 per parent. The gift from child to parent would therefore overcompensate for the tax burden saved, making it a loss-making transaction. There may be other options such as buying a property etc. but that would be going too far & I am not a tax expert.


#juniordepot
#etfs
#vorabpauschale
#dividende
#steuer

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35 Comments

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Wow! Insanely good contribution!
Thanks for your effort! 🙏🏻 @ccf
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@Gerit I think the last time there was one was in October😬
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An addition at this point: it is often part of the discussion that a custody account (or savings account) that is in the parents' name but intended for the child only belongs to the child when it is transferred from the parents to the child or the savings amount is transferred to an account/deposit of the child. This thought often arises together with the question "isn't it risky if relatives pay into the deposit but it is left to the "godwill" of the parents what actually happens to the money...
It is important to note that if it is obvious that the money - even if it is paid into a custody account opened by the parents and held in their name - is intended for the child from the outset (e.g. because the intended use says something like "asset accumulation for little Torben"), it is legally the case that the assets are already attributed to the child from the outset. This becomes even clearer if the child knows about the "parents' deposit that is intended for me" and if, for example, birthday money or confirmation money is received there...

See also judgment of the Federal Court of Justice 17.7.2019, ref. XII ZB 425/18.

In this respect, for example, a parent may not simply empty this account in the event of divorce, etc ...
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@LUD absolutely the most important judgment in this context. Unfortunately, it is all too often misjudged.
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Great contribution!
Saved - when I'm ready ist🤷🏻‍♂️😎
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In my case, the kids both have their own junior custody account with a monthly savings installment and otherwise the family can also put money into it on special occasions🧈😂 Let's see where the Nasdaq will be in 20 years🤯🚀
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Wow, kudos for the workup.
Besides the costs (taxes, lump sums, etc.)
There are still some risks.
-Death (own, parents) then the custody account becomes part of the estate.
-Divorce, the deposit is in your name (third party) and you get divorced, then your ex-wife gets half of it
-child goes off the rails and is not ready for it at 18. If it's in the child's name, there's nothing you can do about it.
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If you expect to find that your child can't handle money shortly before the age of 18 and will spend it all. Postpone everything to 10 years fixed-term deposits or similar. Most people are a bit more mature at 28.
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@Papiertiger If the market has just corrected by 30% at this point, that hurts more than anything. It is also not really an option to gamble on.
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Really good contribution! Hats off 🎩 🚀
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Top contribution 👍
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Great contribution! Thanks for the effort
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The comparison by Finanzfluss is outdated and does not contain the latest data. Consorsbank, for example, now also has free ETF savings plans. In any case, it is questionable to put a provider in first place that offers hundreds of ETFs, in the end it will be the MSCI World or FTSE All World anyway. Whether several hundred exotic funds are offered is irrelevant for 99%. I recently opened a custody account for my daughter and came to different conclusions. Don't rely on individual comparisons, but check the conditions yourself. Otherwise, yes, a junior custody account is a good thing. https://investorsapiens.de/juniordepot-kinderdepot-vergleich-junior-depot/
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A somewhat unusual question, please don't judge me or anything, I don't have a child. But I've only been looking into the subject for a short time and the following question came to mind.

To what extent could the junior custody account be "misused" to save taxes, for example? Suppose someone gives money to their child or saves money in the custody account. Couldn't you simply give the money back to yourself later, as you are a trustee? Who regulates the fact that you don't transfer money back to yourself? Do you have to go to a family court or something like that?

As I said, I don't intend to do this... and I don't have a child either... purely out of interest, because I couldn't find anything quickly.

Cool post 🙌🏻
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@CarloL Children can only make tax-free gifts of eur 20,000 to their parents; above this amount, gift tax is payable. Depending on the gift amount, this is then between 10-20% approx.
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@Marco_Apple Yes, of course I understand that. But then I could still use the money I "save" for my child to save taxes for myself and just put it back. Do you understand?
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@CarloL That's normal day-to-day business. My father already did this with my account.
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A quick info on why Finvesto is so good, because I also do it for my children.

You have no monthly fees and ETFs are always charged with a 0.2% order fee. That's really very fair. In addition, managing the account is very convenient for the legal guardians, because Finvesto distributes accounts by tax number. So if you also have your VL there, you can manage yourself and the children with one account. Reinvestments of distributions are free of charge and, above all, automatic.

From the age of 18, however, you should close the custody account because of the custody account management fees.
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Thanks mega contribution ✌️
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Very good contribution, thank you!
We opted for option 2 last year and have an accumulator in our name.
The possibility of continuing to manage the money after our 18th birthday is definitely worth the lower return.
If I had received that much money on my 18th, it would be gone a few weeks later and I might be dead 😅 and my parents' house and upbringing weren't bad.
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Brilliant contribution: @ccf
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Many thanks for the valuable contribution, which will be linked countless times in the future. @ccf for this 😃
@ccf @Kundenservice is the ccf still around, or is it still in hibernation?
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A somewhat unusual question, please don't judge me or anything, I don't have a child. But I've only been looking into the subject for a short time and the following question came to mind.

To what extent could the junior custody account be "misused" to save taxes, for example? Suppose someone gives money to their child or saves money in the custody account. Couldn't you simply give the money back to yourself later, as you are a trustee? Who regulates the fact that you don't transfer money back to yourself? Do you have to go to a family court or something like that?

As I said, I don't intend to do this... and I don't have a child either... purely out of interest, because I couldn't find anything quickly.

Cool post 🙌🏻
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@CarloL you can certainly do that, but:

Fight with the child and he reports you. Then tax evasion and theft.

Random check of any kind: tax evasion.

Someone turns you in: Tax evasion.

It probably never happens, but it happens more often than you think 🙃
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@devnerd_daddy okay, thanks. I would have thought you might have to display something like that somewhere 👍🏻
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Simply give a gold bar as a gift 😇
@Marco_Apple Cool contribution. I opened a junior custody account with ING for my recently born son for this reason.

One question about your calculations that I didn't quite understand:
In Example I, why does the value of the custody account at the end of the term differ for Option 1 and Option 2?
Have I missed something?
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@Shakes Thank you, the deposit value for Option II is lower because the advance tax allowance is deducted and therefore no further interest can be compounded (assuming the allowance has been exhausted). Conversely, with Option I, the tax advantage continues to accrue interest.
I see. Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation 👍
In any case, buy him cryptos if he can only use it in 15 years anyway. They won't die out. Rest in etfs
Wow!!! This article is really great. A great insight with excellent comparisons of the various options. I'm currently working on this very topic. Thank you very much for this!!!
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1Yr
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@DonMontero In theory, as much is sold so that the child's annual tax-free allowance (2024 = EUR 11,604) can be utilized as much as possible. As a rule, this is the entire position - especially in the early years.
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