1Yr·

Why I am already betting on the dividend strategy at a young age

Moin,


after @Fabzy apparently can't get away from the dividend strategy and has now published his second or third post on the subject (sorry, raccoons aren't that good at counting) in which he tries to understand why young people opt for a dividend strategy, I would like to publish my view on this. Since we are both almost the same age, our start could be (and is) very similar. Nevertheless, we both pursue different strategies. The discussion about dividend strategy or growth strategy or a mixture is certainly far from over and yet it is good to talk about it and get to know other perspectives. Hence my contribution today. Perhaps it will then become even clearer why I (and many others) are focusing on a dividend strategy, even though there is still a lot of time before retirement and returns are being missed.


First of all, I have to get something off my chest:

This is, of course, my personal opinion and strategy. I make no claim to correctness or perfection, nor to completeness or to having found the golden path. I am well aware of the possibility of missed returns. Ultimately, however, it is not always just about returns and achieving the highest possible portfolio balance at time X, but also and above all about feeling good and quality of life. @Fabzy In his article, he tries to find a reason why young investors in particular rely on the dividend strategy, even though they still have an investment horizon of easily 30-40 years and are therefore ideally placed to take advantage of any growth. Irrespective of the fact that he admits that he is an old, wrinkly tortoise and I am a young, delicate raccoon, the answer to this is, as he himself has stated (among other things): cash flow.


Foreword

There are an almost infinite number of variables that lead us to a strategy that suits us. Of course, upbringing and experience in our youth are also part of it. The opportunities to obtain information are also part of it. A strategy should of course be fixed, but not set in stone. A strategy can certainly change in life. Even several times. But it should always fit the circumstances.

Similar to the well-known raccoon proverb, everyone is his own pizza baker. While some focus on full growth, others prefer to take it easy and invest in supposedly safer shares, while also collecting dividends, which further slows down company growth.

But ultimately, whatever feels best for you is the right choice.


Why did I opt for the dividend strategy?

In my particular case, there are three points that make me opt for a dividend strategy.


Point 1 is security. When I first started investing, I fell flat on my face. Typical fail, as probably happened to several other people at the beginning, I hope. On the internet you read about quick money and apparently a sure-fire deal. A stock is mentioned, often a Canadian penny stock (what a penny stock is, of course, is unknown, but it doesn't matter. Canadian stock exchange, it can only be safe). I did some quick research and discovered that the share price has risen by almost 400% in 2 weeks. Many comments available, all of which agree (I'm sure it's like the reviews on HolidayCheck). Get in quickly before it's too late. Well, and as luck would have it, that was exactly the top... Stop loss? What nonsense. Far too complicated at the beginning. Besides, it's only a short setback anyway. Well, ignorance is no defense against punishment.

So here's an absolutely important warning: do your own research, understand the company and don't just buy something because it's on the internet somewhere (including Instagram and getquin). And if you do, then at least set a stop-loss order!

Incidentally, the investment in question is currently at -92% for me.


This experience prompted me to bet on less volatile stocks, but at least on well-known names. I had burnt my fingers. Of course, growth stocks are by no means comparable with Canadian penny stocks. Just for the sake of completeness.


Point 2 is motivation. It simply motivates me when I regularly receive dividends in my account. What's more, thanks to savings plans, these increase with every month and so I can see an increase month after month and year after year. It's simply fun and motivates you to keep going. Some people don't need this motivation and continue to save even if the value of their portfolio falls and falls and falls and don't worry about it. I am glad to have this motivation and needed it all the more when I started out and the mishap with the Canadian penny stock happened to me.

That brings me to


point 3 and thus the core of the article:

Cash flow.

Yes, it is cash flow (and the associated taxes) that reduces returns and impairs compound interest. But it is precisely this cash flow that gives me what I already want today. Financial freedom and an additional income.

Of course, financial freedom can be defined very broadly and is probably different for everyone.

For me, this freedom means that I can already buy things today with money that works passively for me.


What is the goal anyway?

At the beginning, of course, everyone has to ask themselves what their personal goal is. Part of the strategy could then be derived from this.

You could ask yourself the following questions:

  • Do I want to close the pension gap?
  • Do I want to retire earlier?
  • When do I want to start working less or not at all?
  • Am I prepared to sell shares later?
  • When do I want financial freedom?
  • What does being free mean to me?
  • What do I need to achieve this?


There are, of course, various calculations that can be made. How much do I need to save and for how long in order to have the following portfolio with this or that return later? Depending on whether I sell shares or not, I can then use this to generate my payouts for as long as I want.


What is my goal now?

On the one hand, my personal goal is to at least close the pension gap, or rather to fill it. On the other hand, I would also like to be able to enjoy financial freedom as early as possible while experiencing less volatility than would be the case with growth companies.

I have deliberately not set myself a specific (i.e. monetary) target.

I want to get the maximum possible within my framework and what I get for my pension is good. If it's even so much that I can retire at 55, then that's all the better.


Roughly speaking, my goal can be broken down into the following areas:

  • Reduce/close/exceed the pension gap
  • minimize volatility
  • Enable a certain amount of freedom now


As you can easily see, my goal is not to achieve the maximum possible return. Nor is the primary goal to have one or two million on key date X. My aim is simply to generate an additional income for my retirement and to have a second income now with as little volatility as possible.


I'm well aware that this means that returns will fall by the wayside, but that's part of the plan.


How do I go about achieving my goal?

Many roads lead to @Barstens waste garbage can.

As individual as the personal goal is, so is the way to achieve it. You can try to beat the market, you can buy growth stocks, ETFs (and there are also countless different variations), dividend stocks, dividend growth stocks or a combination of all of these, and so on. Everyone simply has to find their own way. The important thing is to stay true to your strategy, but also to question and review it regularly.


I use a combination. Not just one of pizza and banana peel, but of dividend growth and a higher dividend yield.


There are several reasons for this:

My ETF portfolio will soon be self-sustaining. So if I have to reduce my savings rate because something unforeseen happens, I can still feed my ETF portfolio with more shares on its own. Despite the fact that the savings rate is no longer available, the savings rate will continue.

Of course, this is a bit of self-deception, because with an accumulator I also reinvest the dividend, just before I receive it in my account.

Nevertheless, it contributes to my well-being (psyche is also an important factor for a raccoon), but at the same time it has another advantage, which I will come to in a moment.


I also have a share portfolio consisting of stocks with higher dividend yields, solid dividend stocks and dividend growth stocks. I use the higher dividend yield to generate additional income and thus broaden my portfolio. Of course, the dividend growth stocks are not yet yielding so much, their time will come later. They are more or less an investment in the future.

So in order to diversify in the first place, I am taking a slightly higher risk, which is offset by solid dividend stocks (in the overall view).

I realize that I am not beating the market. But that's not my intention either. I keep the share portfolio in order to receive different dividends every month. It's just fun to see so many companies in the portfolio.


This all leads me to the most important reason: financial freedom.

As described above, this topic is also very individual.


What does financial freedom mean (to me)?

For many (perhaps most) people, financial freedom means no longer having to work, living on passive income and no longer having to worry about the financial future.

Of course, this requires a high savings rate and/or a frugal lifestyle (or of course a very lucky hand when investing).


For me, financial freedom starts earlier and I would like to broaden it and speak not only of freedom, but also of security. This is of course very subjective and someone who is focused on pure growth stocks will also feel secure or free. So here again: This is very individual and every person is simply different.


I set myself small "goals" and as soon as they are achieved, they are increased. I just know that I can but don't have to and that gives me a certain, albeit small, sense of security.

For example: I want to be able to buy 1kg of bananas every week just from dividends so that I can wrap my pizza. The next goal would then be an additional 1kg of carrots per week so that I can ride a donkey to the supermarket, etc. (🖕🏻)


My goals at the beginning: Eating out once a month (right, not just Mäcces). Then have my gym membership paid for by dividends (it's more expensive in the village than in the city). Then have internet and cell phone contracts paid for, etc.

Knowing that I can theoretically have this paid for from dividends in the future is just good.


My car is currently 20 years old. I absolutely need it. It's always reliable, but it could just as easily fall apart tomorrow. Knowing that I could just walk into a dealership on the spur of the moment and lease a car while the lease payment is paid from dividends is simply reassuring.


I could also plan a vacation. Finally to Barstens Beerbar and the whole trip paid for by dividends. Sure, it would cost an annual dividend, but it would be possible even without explicitly setting aside something from my salary for vacation.


Next goals: Pay the loan installment for the house, replace a 450€ job, etc.


So I'm increasing my goals and that already gives me a certain amount of financial freedom. I have the opportunity to use the money for all of these things. But as long as I don't want to (or don't have to), the dividends will be reinvested. The security this gives me is that if my disposable income decreases (rising prices, lower salary due to a forced job change, etc.) and I can only live from salary to salary, then I know that I can still afford certain things here and there thanks to the dividends without having to do anything else. Even without selling shares and thus irretrievably reducing the return.


Summary

The crucial point, and this brings us full circle to the initial question, is therefore largely: What is my goal for the future?

As individual as this answer is, so individual is every strategy.

It is therefore completely irrelevant whether you are pursuing a dividend strategy at the age of 20 or still fully committed to growth at 75. Nobody knows the reasons for this and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to explain them.


My strategy is of course just one of many. Nevertheless, I hope that @Fabzy now a little clearer why you could pursue a pure dividend strategy at a young age.

Slow turtles sometimes just take a little longer 😊


Have a nice evening in the middle of the week.


#dividende
#dividendenstrategie

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63 Comments

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Thank you so much for the work you put into this very interesting post that I enjoyed reading. You know you're always welcome as a cuddly little raccoon; be it at our garbage cans or in the Beerbar 😬.
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Thank you I can sign so 😊👍@ccf
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Very strong 😎 find both views on the subject interesting, ultimately everyone must feel comfortable with his strategy 😊 🔥
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@Kapital_Koala Exactly the same
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Bookmarked. Read later 😀
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A great post, thank you very much! I find myself very much in what you have experienced so and in what has moved you to your change. All the best for the future success 👍
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@Dipsy Thank you, that makes me happy and you as well 👍🏻
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Cool post and important points.❤️
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Great post! Good luck and have fun with it! It is wished to you from the heart ✨🚀
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@Cro many thanks 🙏🏻
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Very good post! Thanks for that! Good luck for the future🚀
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@AktienPrimat Thank you very much 🙏🏻 You as well.
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Soulmate. Dividends in the clearing account are simply cool. I like to bet today on companies like $NEM and $ASML with a rather low dividend yield of less than 1% in order to have a strong personal dividend yield of these strong stocks in the best case in a few years.
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1) 🖕🖕🖕 2) Do you increase your savings plans by the distributions, or do you invest fixed amount X every month, which is composed of the respective dividends + your income?

3) 🖕🍌🖕 4) What I just don't understand: why is it better not to reinvest dividends than to cut the savings plan? 5) If you're all about low volatility, why not a minimum volatility ETF? 6) There is something between growth and high dividend, after all. The question you should always ask yourself: Why does a company pay high dividends? And what can it not do more with the dividend that is paid out (e.g. invest wisely in the future)? Is it realistic that you reduce risk / volatility with such companies? 7) 🍌🖕🍌 8) You want to get the maximum out within your framework and yet deliberately forgo returns? How does that fit together? 9) If you really want to minimize volatility, why not a time deposit? 10) You're not feeding your ETF portfolio out of itself. You're just not investing anything more. What you call "feeding from itself" is called accumulating and is equivalent to "I invest in the accumulating version of my ETF, but suspend my savings plan." 11) 🍌🖕🍌 13) 🖕🖕🖕 14) Alternatively, your reduced savings rate would pay you your lease payment instead of the dividend. With the same effect. 15) The goal is actually not that individual. Actually, somewhat abstracted, it is the same for everyone: the maximum return that can be achieved with one's own risk profile, the effort that should be invested and taking into account personal preferences. 16) Ultimately, your approach is quite understandable. You invest according to feeling and not according to rational aspects. Or at least more by feeling than by rational aspects. I do that, too. But you should also admit it to yourself and not look for excuses why you invest the way you do. 17) There is a mistake in my comment. Who can find it? 18) 🖕🖕🖕
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@DonkeyInvestor at point 12/2= 6) the point is missing after "bspw". So it should be "bspw.". Have I won?
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@DonkeyInvestor
1) 🖕🖕🖕 (Simpsonfinger especially for you) 2) Either savings plans are increased or, as it is currently still, new savings plans are created. 3) 🖕🥕🖕 4) Your statement makes no sense. Dividends are reinvested and savings plans are not cut either. 5) Is the question serious? Why don't you buy $SOL? 6) It depends on the stock. For example, the company could already be so big and so widespread that growth would not be possible at all without further ado or would even be unhealthy because the market would be oversaturated. Of course, there's also something in between. But that's why dividend yield isn't the only decisive factor. 7) 🥕🖕🥕 8) It's right there. Within my framework. So as an example (without me having a specific value actually): If I had set myself a frame as volatility of max +/- 15%, then the stock could still grow steadily. Volatility stands for fluctuation, not for growth. You know? 9) Where does it say minimize? 10) Correct. But it also gives me the option to use the dividends differently if I have to, without selling shares 11) 🥕🖕🥕 12) I 13) 🖕🖕🖕 14) With the difference that the number of shares would be constant, so I would have deficits in the dividend yield later. 15) Yep. That's right. And yet it's individual because the type of risk profile, the effort, and thus the result is completely different. 16) Correct, that's what I'm saying. 19) 🖕🖕🖕
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@DonkeyInvestor Item 12 is missing. Interesting that hidden lottery 😂
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@DividendenWaschbaer

4) You do not make sense. If the worst comes to the worst, you don't want to reinvest your dividend and lease a car, for example. What is better than cutting the savings rate? 5) Yes. Because it sucks centrally. 6) I claim that every company that doesn't know what to do with its money will have a problem sooner or later. The companies you describe should be the exception than the rule. 8) And you are good at estimating the volatility of stocks like $MPW? 9) Everywhere. Maybe not literally but that's what your post suggests. 10) You could also just reduce your savings rate and not have to sell anything 14) No. 12) 19) You found my hidden mistake and won. Here is your prize: 🖕🏻🍌
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@GoDividend right. You have won a @Vanguard sweater. Send a screenshot and your dress size to kundenservice@vanguard.com.
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@GoDividend you should really do that and see what happens
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@DonkeyInvestor
4) Always the thought that the savings plan will continue. Purely mental. It doesn't make any difference. I like to assume the worst. So suppose I can't keep the savings plan going because the money is needed elsewhere. At the same time, my car breaks down. So I can lease the new car and still use the savings plan installment for something else. It's purely a thought experiment. Of course I could also sell shares for 200€ every month for a fee. But I don't want to. 5) Because the Low Votality ETF doesn't appeal to me at the moment. 6) You claim. May be. But maybe not. It is not about whether a company distributes 100% or 0% of the FCF. Of course there is always the share buyback. But not knowing where to put the money was more related to new investments like new branches or so. 8) Of course not. And I also wrote that I partly have a higher risk in the portfolio. But then again, this is balanced out by things like $MCD or $PG or so, which tend to run a little more smoothly. 9) Everyone has a certain "pain threshold" that can be endured in terms of volatility. One person doesn't care if the portfolio falls by 60%, the other gets heart palpitations at -10%. That is simply different. I could not necessarily sleep peacefully at -50%. But that is a dynamic process and different for everyone. 10) Psyche 14) But I also want a Vanguard sweater
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@DonkeyInvestor Done. Waiting for feedback
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@DividendenWaschbaer

4) would rather get money paid out for a fee (tax) at any time, even though you don't need it at all 👍 5) Because you're in love with dividends. Just admit it 6) but maybe yes 8) and those are high dividend stocks for you? 14) Oohhh you get one when @GoDividend throws his in the trash
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Great post 👍🏻 Thanks for your thoughts and ideas
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So kid in the FED and the bed listened.... Thanks for the contribution 🚀 but I was not so wrong with my assessment, except that we are both Y-ner. I can understand every word what you write, from your point of view, but not from mine. The whole thing is not a competition to see who has the biggest portfolio, but the only goal that your portfolio should fulfill is to make you happy. Today, tomorrow and in 30 years. I thank you for the discussion, push a lettuce leaf and a dandelion over to you and invite you to take a good sip of high-proof 🥃🥃. But can I write you up? Salary always comes only in the middle of the month and just I'm short of cash 😘@ccf
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@Fabzy Absolutely correct. My contribution was also exceptionally no criticism or counterstatement but rather a more detailed presentation of your idea, which is actually not wrong. But honestly lettuce leaf and lion's tooth? I'm not a Kanichen? I take the high percentage but very gladly. Write goes exceptionally. But I do not forget!
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@Fabzy Listened to the bed and brought the child to the FED 🧐🤔?
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@DonkeyInvestor Yes, that makes more sense. Nevertheless, I'm now still Feierabendbier on. Alcohol content 5.0 - 5.25% 🍺
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And when I think of all our little discussion groups. The back and forth. It has been a long way to your strategy with which you feel really comfortable in your fur. But now it seems that the time has come. Way found and now it is run 🚀✅✅
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@GoDividend this is how it looks 😁
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Interesting post presenting your own strategy and thoughts on it. If you feel comfortable with it.... you can do so. Strategies are as different as you and me, if dividends inspire you 💸 you are definitely no exception. @ccf
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I think that's a good contribution. It's always nice to read why others choose a strategy. I also understand the psychological aspect of the dividend that you mention, but I think (at least it comes across that way, it may be that you just didn't elaborate on it in the post, but it's in the back of your mind) you describe dividend payments as too safe. Sure they will continue to be paid if the prices go down for a short time and help you to stay cool, but in a solid longer lasting crisis these payments are not guaranteed in the least and you can't rely on the companies to continue to pay them. I don't want to use this as a knockout argument against dividend strategies, but it is a point on the contra side that you should never forget, in my opinion.
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@FirstPancake Absolutely correct and also legitimate. Of course, the dividend can be reduced or even eliminated. Of course, the dividend is by no means secure, but the share price of a growth company is even less so. But the share price of a growth company is even less so. I think that a company that has been paying dividends for 25 years or more, for example, also has the right to continue doing so. In a negative market phase, I therefore don't care about the share price, because I still get the dividend. With a growth company, however, I first see how the share price falls sharply in some cases. Furthermore, dividends can of course be cut. That also happens regularly. But in my opinion, this is more predictable than the price of a growth share. Overall, of course, there is always the risk that the dividend will be cut completely. If I am then (or before) no longer convinced, I can sell the share. The same applies to a growth company. The only difference is that the share price loss may be much higher for a growth company than for a dividend-paying company. Why? Because the dividend has been paid out. The part of the profit is already mine and is no longer "destroyed".
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@DividendenWaschbaer I'm right there with you. I wrote that because I don't think it gets enough attention in most presentations. While the opponents are always throwing around "but the taxes", many of those who support the idea dismiss the difficulty of the retirement phase with "pff, I've got cash flow, it'll take care of itself". I sometimes think to myself, what happens if they really only rely on the dividends and haven't put anything aside for bad market phases, in which the cash flow can also be lower for years, as I keep reading about with those who rely on selling? I think many have a blind spot there. And because you brought it up, I have to get this off my chest: is it really right to maintain dividends in difficult times? Look at our Dax companies. They all whine about energy costs, lack of skilled workers, send their people into short-time work and demand that the government please subsidize the transformation, because it costs so much. But every year, a new record dividend is distributed. Maybe it's just the employee of a DAX company talking, but it doesn't really make sense to me. I would rather have the money in the company to equip us as a location for the future.
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@FirstPancake I think there are many people who more or less only have a securities account for retirement provision. But that should also be correspondingly large. Otherwise, of course, the nest egg remains intact. At least it should. The question is always, how long one can live with the "savings". 3 months? 6 months? 1 year? What if the bad market phase lasts longer? That's always difficult. I think that all people have the same problem, as long as they don't just have their money in a call money account. But then they have their own problems in times of 7% inflation 🤷🏻‍♂️ regarding dividend payments: I understand what you mean and partly I can't understand it either. But it depends on the individual case. For example, if I have received government aid, then I should pay it back before I increase managers' bonuses. Likewise, there is nothing to stop me from using the dividend for this purpose. However, I strongly suspect that a) there will be tax reasons for this and b) as long as the loan is repaid as agreed (i.e. payment of the installment), I see fewer problems. The distribution on the free cash flow is always important. Especially in crises, there should be enough buffer.
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@DividendenWaschbaer I think that's where the mistake lies. You can't or shouldn't take the nest egg and asset allocation that you have in the savings phase into the savings phase. But many people don't think that far ahead, because it's still so far away. Our brains are not made for such a far ahead planning, but the planning of the change of the asset allocation (no matter if you bet on dividends or on the partial sale of assets) is so important and I try to point it out every time where I can.
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@FirstPancake Then you have a task for life. You'll never be finished with it😅 Good luck with it. But it's still right 👍🏻😊
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@DividendenWaschbaer thank you, but so finnd I better than the 15th time to write the same as others before me. So I have at least under most posts nen own point 😅🙈😁
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I sign so ✍🏻 ♥️
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Thank you for your contribution, I could although now only reading 45 hrs week to earn money, which can be reduced at some point with dividend payments probably 😉 , as long as you just have to compensate about € 250 fuel per month. Yes set small goals and work towards them. Netflix is almost safe with dividends in. 🤣. Here's your reward @ccf. Ps: Yes on the muzzle we are all I think times fallen at the beginning. Do it probably like me no losses sell.
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@ScreamFD Phew, 250€ fuel costs are steep. That's what I paid for the train ticket plus 100€ fuel per month. Only for work. Aaaaber now we have yes 49€ ticket 🥳 Sell losses always makes sense when the basic investmentcase has changed. In my case, due to lack of experience and lack of stop loss, I just lost so much already that I don't sell these stocks anymore. For once, I actually do it so that they just stay in my portfolio as a warning. And at some point, when they might get to my purchase price again, then I sell all but one last one. But only then. The learning curve is over and has paid off 👍🏻
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@DividendenWaschbaer Yes, there are also private trips. 500 km a week, before without Fahrgeneinschaft it was 800 km.
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Super report. 🥃 It reflects one or the other in my current planning. I am absolutely at the beginning since I only started in March to deal with ETF and shares. Actually, yes not bad. But my personal problem is, I think, that I (40j) should have started earlier. But well, I have started to invest, better now than never. I have thought about my approach again in recent days and have now come to the decision to build my portfolio based on dividends. Simply because the cash flow excites and motivates me.
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Interesting presentation 👍
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