2Yrยท

๐–๐š๐ซ๐ฎ๐ฆ ๐ž๐ฌ ๐’๐ข๐ง๐ง ๐ž๐ซ๐ ๐ข๐›๐ญ, "๐…๐ž๐ก๐ฅ๐ครค๐ฎ๐Ÿ๐ž" ๐ฆ๐ข๐ญ ๐•๐ž๐ซ๐ฅ๐ฎ๐ฌ๐ญ ๐ณ๐ฎ ๐ฏ๐ž๐ซ๐ค๐š๐ฎ๐Ÿ๐ž๐ง

Time and again, I read about users who have made a bad purchase (great) but only want to part with it as soon as they can do so at a profit (not so great). In this article, we will look at why this is nonsense and why bad purchases should be sold as soon as possible - regardless of whether they are profitable or not. In this article, I'm talking about investment A, which you want to sell, and investment B, which you want to buy.


๐–๐ž๐ฅ๐œ๐ก๐ž ๐†๐ซรผ๐ง๐๐ž ๐ ๐ข๐›๐ญ ๐ž๐ฌ รผ๐›๐ž๐ซ๐ก๐š๐ฎ๐ฉ๐ญ, ๐ฎ๐ฆ ๐ž๐ข๐ง๐ž ๐ˆ๐ง๐ฏ๐ž๐ฌ๐ญ๐ข๐ญ๐ข๐จ๐ง ๐ณ๐ฎ ๐ฏ๐ž๐ซ๐ค๐š๐ฎ๐Ÿ๐ž๐ง?

Certainly many. But here we are mainly looking at two situations:


1) The investment case of A is no longer correct. For example, there are new findings about a company in which an investment was made that significantly reduce the potential returns. Another example would be an investment in a sector ETF for which the growth prospects have deteriorated. Or personal preferences have changed, e.g. because the risk in the portfolio needs to be reduced. In short: the reason why you invested in A is no longer valid. You want to get rid of A because it no longer fits into your portfolio.


2) A new investment case B has emerged that fits better into your strategy. So the investment case for A is still intact, but there is another investment opportunity that fits even better into your portfolio. For example, because you, as a risk-averse investor, have previously held a blockchain ETF, @stefan_21 but GetQuin has now shown you how you can easily hold Bitcoin yourself and you think the potential returns here are higher.


In purely rational terms, an investment is reallocated because another investment promises a higher return or a lower risk. As soon as you realize this, you should also reallocate.


๐‰๐š ๐ฌ๐œ๐ก๐จ๐ง, ๐š๐›๐ž๐ซ ๐ฆ๐ž๐ข๐ง ๐ˆ๐ง๐ฏ๐ž๐ฌ๐ญ๐ฆ๐ž๐ง๐ญ ๐ข๐ฌ๐ญ ๐ฃ๐ž๐ญ๐ณ๐ญ ๐ฌ๐จ ๐ฌ๐ญ๐š๐ซ๐ค ๐ ๐ž๐Ÿ๐š๐ฅ๐ฅ๐ž๐ง, ๐๐š๐ฌ ๐ฐ๐ข๐ซ๐ ๐ฌ๐ข๐œ๐ก ๐ฌ๐œ๐ก๐จ๐ง ๐ฐ๐ข๐ž๐๐ž๐ซ ๐ž๐ซ๐ก๐จ๐ฅ๐ž๐ง. ๐–๐š๐ซ๐ฎ๐ฆ ๐ง๐ข๐œ๐ก๐ญ ๐ง๐จ๐œ๐ก ๐ฆ๐ข๐ญ ๐๐ž๐ฆ ๐•๐ž๐ซ๐ค๐š๐ฎ๐Ÿ ๐ฐ๐š๐ซ๐ญ๐ž๐ง, ๐›๐ข๐ฌ ๐ข๐œ๐ก ๐ฐ๐ข๐ž๐๐ž๐ซ ๐ข๐ฆ ๐๐ฅ๐ฎ๐ฌ ๐›๐ข๐ง?

Suppose you decide to switch from investment A to investment B due to higher returns. Then you assume that B will perform better than A in the future. If you wait until you are back in the black with A (assuming you ever get back into the black with A), B will probably have risen more than A in the meantime. At least that's what your investment case says. Compared to an immediate sale, if you wait and sell A at a profit, you can buy less of B from the proceeds of your sale. You also have to pay tax on your profit from the sale of A, which means you can afford even less B. If you had sold at a loss, no tax would have been due. If that was too theoretical for you, there's also a calculation example a little further down.


Let's assume you want to switch from investment A to a lower-risk investment B. For example, because you will need the money in the foreseeable future. Even then, it makes sense to sell A directly and invest in B (in this case, it could also be the call money account), as A - due to the higher risk - could plummet even further and you want more stability in your portfolio.


๐๐ฅรถ๐๐ฌ๐ข๐ง๐ง๐ง! ๐ˆ๐œ๐ก ๐›๐ข๐ง๐ง ๐ฆ๐ข๐ซ ๐š๐ฎ๐Ÿ๐ ๐ซ๐ฎ๐ง๐ [insert any reason here] ๐ฌ๐ข๐œ๐ก๐ž๐ซ, ๐๐š๐ฌ๐ฌ ๐€ ๐ค๐ฎ๐ซ๐ณ๐Ÿ๐ซ๐ข๐ฌ๐ญ๐ข๐  ๐ฌ๐ญรค๐ซ๐ค๐ž๐ซ ๐š๐ฅ๐ฌ ๐ ๐ฌ๐ญ๐ž๐ข๐ ๐ž๐ง ๐ฐ๐ข๐ซ๐. ๐„๐ง๐ญ๐ฌ๐ฉ๐ซ๐ž๐œ๐ก๐ž๐ง๐ ๐ฐ๐š๐ซ๐ญ๐ž ๐ข๐œ๐ก ๐š๐ฎ๐œ๐ก ๐ง๐จ๐œ๐ก ๐ฆ๐ข๐ญ ๐๐ž๐ฆ ๐”๐ฆ๐ฌ๐œ๐ก๐ข๐œ๐ก๐ญ๐ž๐ง.

If you're so sure about this and wait and see, you're market timing. If you're good at it (which I don't think you are, otherwise you wouldn't be in the red with A), you can of course speculate on it. But then you should shift everything into A, as you know that you will achieve an excess return with A. You don't want that? That's what I thought. So sell A immediately and invest in B.


๐ˆ๐œ๐ก ๐›๐ข๐ง ๐ง๐จ๐œ๐ก ๐ง๐ข๐œ๐ก๐ญ รผ๐›๐ž๐ซ๐ณ๐ž๐ฎ๐ ๐ญ. ๐‡๐š๐ฌ๐ญ ๐๐ฎ ๐ž๐ข๐ง ๐ฉ๐š๐š๐ซ ๐‘๐ž๐œ๐ก๐ž๐ง๐›๐ž๐ข๐ฌ๐ฉ๐ข๐ž๐ฅ๐ž?

Of course. Assume A and B are each worth 100 euros on 01.06. You bought A for 110 euros and expect a higher return from B. We assume that you are correct with your investment case and that B achieves a higher return than A. If you do not have (sufficient) confidence in your investment case, this is a clear sign that you should take a closer look at the two investments and the current market situation.


๐’๐ณ๐ž๐ง๐š๐š๐ซ๐ข๐จ ๐Ÿ: You wait until you are in the profit zone with A (115 euros to recoup the fees) and then switch to B. A actually rises to the desired 115 euros by 01.12. So you sell A for 115 euros, have to pay tax on the 5 euros profit and receive approx. 113.75 euros. As B increases more according to your investment theory, B has a value of 120 euros at this point. You buy approximately 0.948 B from your 113.75 euros.


๐’๐ณ๐ž๐ง๐š๐ซ๐ข๐จ ๐Ÿ: Here too, you want to sell A for 115 euros and then switch to B. However, A does not perform as you had hoped. On the contrary. On 01.12., the price of A is only 95 euros. As B has now risen to 120 euros, you get nervous and switch to B at a loss. You don't have to pay any tax and receive just 0.792 B for your 95 euros.


๐’๐ณ๐ž๐ง๐š๐ซ๐ข๐จ ๐Ÿ‘: You sell A immediately and switch to B. As you are in the red, you do not have to pay taxes and receive exactly 1 B for your 100 euros. On 01.12. you don't care about the price of A, the price of B is 120 euros at the same time and you still have exactly 1 B.


๐’๐ณ๐ž๐ง๐š๐ซ๐ข๐จ ๐Ÿ’: You sell A for 115 euros. Even if B achieves a better return in the medium term, you catch a good time and can buy B for 114.50 euros. As tax is due on your 5 euro profit, you receive 113.75 euro and buy B for 0.993 euro.


So you can see that even if A performs slightly better than B, you will end up with more B and therefore more money if you sell immediately. In addition, you can certainly save yourself a few nerve-wracking glances at your portfolio because you invest directly in B, the investment you believe in, and don't have to hope that A, the investment you no longer believe in, will for some reason rise significantly more than B and you happen to catch the right time to sell and buy. You also fill your loss pot and can save tax if you sell another investment at a profit.


๐”๐ง๐ ๐ฐ๐š๐ฌ ๐ข๐ฌ๐ญ, ๐ฐ๐ž๐ง๐ง ๐€ ๐๐จ๐œ๐ก ๐ฌ๐ญรค๐ซ๐ค๐ž๐ซ ๐š๐ฅ๐ฌ ๐ ๐ฌ๐ญ๐ž๐ข๐ ๐ญ?

This is of course possible. Assuming A rises to 115 euros by 01.12. while B only rises to 110 euros. Then, after tax, you can still invest 113.75 euros in B and could buy 1.034 B. However, this would contradict your well-analyzed investment case and would therefore be much less likely than a higher price gain for B. So you are betting against yourself. Sounds strange, but it is.


๐Ž๐ค๐š๐ฒ ๐จ๐ค๐š๐ฒ, ๐ข๐œ๐ก ๐ก๐š๐›๐ž ๐ฏ๐ž๐ซ๐ฌ๐ญ๐š๐ง๐๐ž๐ง. ๐‡๐š๐ฌ๐ญ ๐๐ฎ ๐ญ๐ซ๐จ๐ญ๐ณ๐๐ž๐ฆ ๐ง๐จ๐œ๐ก ๐ž๐ข๐ง๐ž๐ง ๐“๐ข๐ฉ๐ฉ ๐Ÿรผ๐ซ ๐ฆ๐ข๐œ๐ก?

Yes, to come back to the calculation example: Imagine you had 100 euros at your free disposal. Would you then put this 100 euros into A or B? Probably in B. So get the 100 euros by selling A and put them into B!


Have you ever held on to a bad purchase for too long or do you always sell immediately when the investment case no longer fits?


#strategie
#verlust
#fehlkauf
#learn
#esel

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Very nice contribution! @ccf I have long left Wirecard as a reminder, until I thought to myself that nothing more happens there. So despite over 90% loss sold and invested the money elsewhere. Similarly, it was also with the Clean Energy ETF in which I had a lot of hope, but only later really noticed what cucumbers rumgammeln in there ...
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@Staatsmann better an end with horror and learn something from it, than a horror without end ๐Ÿ˜…. At the time, I invested relatively blindly in various cryptos and ETFs. I held on to the cryptos for far too long, and fortunately I shifted the ETFs when the investment case no longer fit. In one stock (Bayer) I had sold significantly too early. That is annoying, but I do not mourn Bayer, because the investment case simply no longer fit.
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@DonkeyInvestor Selling too early is better than selling too late, I think :)
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@Staatsmann as long as you didn't throw your 10k bitcoin on the market in 2010, i agree with you ๐Ÿ˜
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@Staatsmann can you do an evaluation? the area is exciting but you hardly know any individual titles.
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@Derebete In what way an evaluation? :) With the Clean Energy ETF, it's technically better performance to buy select companies instead of having all the extra baggage to go along with the ETF. ๐Ÿ˜…
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@Staatsmann well what lame ducks stretching in there like that
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@Derebete Let's see when I find the time for it :) Otherwise, but certainly @TheAccountant89 gladly takes over something ๐Ÿ˜‚
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@DonkeyInvestor Which cryptos did you hold on to for too long? In itself, every coin pumps in the bull market or after halving. With cryptos partly but not better to leave certain play money simply inside because of my above-mentioned reason?
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@Mario1995 Altcoins (apart from Ethereum) usually only have a short lifespan. I think it's extremely risky to stay in them without seeing a real use case. For example, I had Dash, Zcash, Ethereum Classic, Peercoin and a lot of other garbage.
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@DonkeyInvestor there were even visibly good UseCases for some of these Altcoins (eg Dash in South America). But I unfortunately realized (as an old stock trader) that the crypto world is not for me, I am out with losses and now happy again on Nasdaq & Co. ๐Ÿ˜Ž But it was really a cool exciting time; good luck to you ๐Ÿ‘
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At the moment, it is simply difficult to work out which stocks you should part with, due to the bear market๐Ÿค”
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@NoLimits and if there were no bear market?
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@DonkeyInvestor The dark power is strong
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@ccf
Very Good Item๐Ÿš€ Good Donkey, get a carrot๐Ÿฅ•
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@ccf I faced exactly the same problem at the beginning. That's why I can really empathize with it. Thanks for the post on this. Could be very useful to newbies and unsure investors ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿป๐Ÿ˜Š
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@Cathy What investment were you talking about? When did you split up?
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@DonkeyInvestor Valneva. Classic beginner's mistake, I suppose. As quickly as it was up, it was also down again and even lower. Then I thought, only the calm, the approval EU comes, then that goes up again and as soon as I have bisl plus comes away. Pustekuchen ๐Ÿ˜… I chalk it up as: okay, you have gambled unknowingly and lost. Tough luck! Continue ๐Ÿ™ˆ
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Did not see the post on trending at all and admittedly only read the first 2 sentences, trust you there but that it is EXACTLY WHAT I you letztens already times in a comment had touched on. Important post, dankeโค๏ธ
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@leveragegrinding jo, is what I wrote in a comment the other day. Only a little more detailed
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strong post, bit little emojis but otherwise a @ccf for it
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@Derebete sorry, i like to deliver here ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿš€๐Ÿงญ๐Ÿ˜…๐Ÿค”๐Ÿง๐Ÿคค๐Ÿ’ฉ_COPY01๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿคฌ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿค˜๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜ญ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ๐Ÿคก๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜Ž๐Ÿ™‚๐ŸŒ๐Ÿ†˜๐Ÿ˜ณ๐Ÿฅ•๐Ÿ˜ˆ๐Ÿฟ๐Ÿคฎ๐Ÿคฆโ€โ™‚๏ธ๐Ÿ’ธ๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ’จ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ“‰๐Ÿ‘™@Simpson is that okay?
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@ccf super contribution ๐Ÿš€
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you can also be serious @ccf
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@Gaylord nope, it's all just bullshit. In reality, you should let losses run and limit profits. And investment cases are voodoo
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Great post, Donkey . I think before this dilemma stood every newcomer already times. Thanks for this interesting and well-written post ๐Ÿ‘ Bekommst ne carrot for ๐Ÿ˜‰.
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@Hoernchenfreund thank you, every carrot saves a squirrel.
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...Is also better for the line ๐Ÿ’๐Ÿฝโ€โ™‚๏ธ๐Ÿ˜€
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Super contribution. Thank you very much.
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Great post, which I unfortunately came across only now. Thank you! My portfolio includes over 100 positions. All accumulated nicely over the last 5 years. The whole year I already want to reallocate to a perhaps more sluggish, but for me you significantly better feel dividend strategy. But did not dare to simply sell most of the values, and then with a lot of new cash to build a portfolio with which I identify. I will now probably make a radical cut: Eyes closed and through ๐Ÿ˜ฉ๐Ÿ˜€
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@Marcel1276 just feels good afterwards ๐Ÿ™‚
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@DonkeyInvestor Do not dare me yet so right ... you always think "I wait now again" etc.. Do you still n tip, as I select what I sell - or simply "all gone" and into the new strategy that one would like to have? ๐Ÿ˜€
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@Marcel1276 if you already have a new, well thought-out strategy, I would shift everything in a short time window. If you don't feel comfortable with it, you can also shift a part every month, for example. Then you can see how it feels. For me, for example, after I have sold at a loss, I still watch the value for the first few days afterwards. Sometimes it sinks further, sometimes it rises. Then I am briefly annoyed but after a few days the value disappears from my watchlist and my memory and I feel much better because I'm rid of it and now have the portfolio that I want. If you sell piece by piece, then perhaps first those where the investment case fits least or where you see rational reasons for further price losses.
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One of the best posts I've read here, thank you thank you thank you, speaks not only to me from the soul but I'm sure to many others.
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The overnight money account is an important hint for people (like me) who currently have other things on their minds and don't think about which better alternative B should get them into action.
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Best of. Always up to date. Timeless.
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For most the classic sunken cost fallacy
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All great, BUT blockchain ETF =/= bitcoin. Is not just about accessibility, is just a different asset class. Not crypto but companies making profits from blockchain. Partly via Crypto, partly via completely different business models.
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@alexbigdeal if that's the only thing that stuck with you after reading this post, I've done something fundamentally wrong ๐Ÿ˜ณ
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@DonkeyInvestor Don't get me wrong, I celebrate your content 100%! I just don't think the example is entirely appropriate.
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@alexbigdeal Maybe replace Blockchain ETF with Crypto ETF then it should fit better :)
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@alexbigdeal The example is not really relevant. Nevertheless, it is quite appropriate. Someone may have invested in a blockchain ETF without doing much research. He then learns how to invest directly in crypto and realizes that it was a bad idea to put the blockchain ETF in his portfolio. His investment case is no longer correct as he has gained new insights. So he reallocates ๐Ÿคท
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@alexbigdeal Nowhere do I write that a direct investment in crypto is comparable to a blockchain ETF. I only write that a user first had a blockchain ETF (for whatever reason) and now prefers to invest directly in crypto (for whatever reason). The example would still be valid if he invested in the German postal service, P2P or tasty carrots instead of a blockchain ETF.
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And what if I don't want to switch to B? I want to increase the cash ratio first! A nevertheless sell already now?
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@Sebi97 yes. Then the cash ratio is B.
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@Sebi97 If you want to build up cash, your thesis will probably be that the market will continue to fall. And if you assume that, you should sell.
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Salut donkey, I've been floating around the question since I've read sometime this post, in the head (possibly I've also read over somewhere) but: does it also make sense to sell bad purchases at a loss, if I currently have no more sensible alternative?

(could invest the money in ETF's, there it would not be wrong) or should I run them in the case then also again until the values have partially recovered, if that should happen, lol ๐Ÿค” (is mainly about investments that were recommended to me at the beginning of a friend who has yes "so much idea of stock market and so" my investment period unfasst still easy 30 years :) lg and thanks!
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Ever thought about the fact that you can also look at the statement inversely? "Why it makes sense to sell winning buys at a profit"? Does that make sense?
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Because it fits the post another question. I am really considering to realize my losses ca.4,5k ๐Ÿ˜ข Is the loss pot simply carried over to the next year or do I have to be active or can it also expire after a time (1/5/10years)? (Trade Republic) What is taken first in case of profit, the loss pot or the allowance? Thanks
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