People claim that money does not make you happy. Wrong! Poverty does not make people happy. Money solves most problems and brings freedom. 💰🗽
>> Do you agree?
#mindset
#geld
#freiheit
#euros
#finanzen
#problem
#frage
#meinung #Motivation
It's Just a Game - On the (In)Sense of Stock Market Games
Important: This article is not meant to discredit or judge the current duck hunt (@Dividente against the Getquin community), nor is it a general rejection of (pedagogically supervised) stock exchange games.
TL;DR: Stock market games do not benefit financial education, but are pure casino gambling and usually only serve the purpose of entertainment and customer acquisition.
What are stock market games?
Basically, stock market games are organized on a regular basis by various brokers, financial portals and recently also Getquin. The aim is to achieve the best return with one's chosen financial vehicles (some stock market games restrict this to shares, while others allow "investment" in any available asset such as ETFs, precious metals, cryptos or certificates) over a limited period of time. Often the winners of these contests are rewarded with starting packages for a real investment, cars, vouchers or even a jacket from Patagonia.
Why are stock market games organized?
The question is relatively easy to answer for commercial operators: The primary aim is to attract new customers and to retain these new customers. In the best case, the organizer of a stock exchange game obtains permission to use the data of the players for later advertising purposes. In addition, as probably with Getquin, also the Communitygedanke and the exchange can stand in the foreground (naturally it concerns also User:innen growth...).
In addition, stock exchange games are played again and again also at schools. Here also prices are offered under circumstances, however one can count here also on learning effects, if the beginning, the pedagogical company and conversion are correct. This requires interested teachers and students.
Can I learn about the stock market and investing in stock exchange games?
To make a long story short: Learning the stock market is certainly possible. Learning to invest is not.
Stock market games are mainly about short observation periods. What we all learn in the basic theories of books and various Youtube academies: Investing should generally be done for the long term.
And this is exactly the crux of the matter. Stock market games are far too often limited in time, far too simple in their execution and in the end just a pure game of chance.
Learning the stock market? Yes. The stock market very often appears as simple as a casino. Sometimes some people win, sometimes others lose. Of course, no matter which theory of market efficiency we adhere to, we know that stock market covers only one aspect of the famous casino. It is probably the mixture of casino and seriousness that is the attraction of the stock exchange. In a game, it is pure entertainment.
However, very few of us invest in the stock market for entertainment purposes.
Stock market games can leave just this impression, especially for newcomers and beginners.
What is your "stupid problem" with stock market games?
For me, there are 5 reasons why I usually reject stock market games or consider them to be of little use when starting on the stock market:
To 1.) You do not play with your own money.
Most stock exchange games start with an assumed sum X (e.g. 10.000€ or even 100.000€). But let's be honest: Who of newcomers invests 100k Euro in one go, or 10k Euro in the stock market at a young age? Despite our relative prosperity, this should be the very few beginners.
I have not yet experienced a stock exchange game, which explained, where this immense wealth comes from. Wouldn't it make sense to give a few introductory words on where this free, and for the next 5-10 years not needed (definitely not needed!!!) capital comes from? Did we save it hard or did we just "only" inherit it? Thinking about money was once the request of Mr. Kostolany... with a savings amount this thinking process begins. Instead, the starting amount is slapped into the players' play money deposit without any ifs or buts. Lacoste the world? - After all, it's only play money.
Why is that a problem? More on that later...
To 2.) The period is too short.
Time is money. And therefore a lot of time is also expensive. Stock exchange games usually cost the organizer one thing: money. It is therefore self-explanatory why stock exchange games only last for a manageable period of time. Personnel, infrastructure and prices simply cost a lot of money. Furthermore, the attention span of the players does not allow for extended games over the years, unless it is a commercially operated game. There are examples of this as well, but I do not include them in the consideration of standard wallet games.
In short: The period for a long-term investment is too short to make a statement regarding a "normal" investment period and horizon.
Re 3.) The risk appetite is wrongly shaped.
People who do not have to worry about where money comes from, or who are even exposed to the risk of burning their own money, act differently with money that is suddenly available than people who are aware of the consequences of a bad investment, i.e. a bad decision in relation to their own capital. We all know this phrase: "Skin in the game." Those who put their own skin in the game, i.e. invest with their own money, believe in their idea and know their risk. Or at least must be convinced of himself and his idea.
We have already learned at @DonkeyInvestor we learned: Stock market games are NOT won with diversification (except as a Secret-Win for the most diversified portfolio at Getquin). In stock market games, the most frequent winners are portfolios that go all-in on one or two stocks, that play leverage certificates like Frank Thelen plays with his eggs, or that slam penny stocks or shitcoins into the portfolio as CEO of Gambling, like the door of a Trabant 601.
This is generally where spigelgelddepots differ from reality. Every layman has understood by now: We can only survive on the market if we are sufficiently diversified. For stock market games, this rule seems to be the exception.
Consequence: The game participants:in learn that going all-in on certain, vll. en vogue company stocks or financial vehicles is particularly worthwhile.
Another point for risk misjudgement: As a player, I am betting on a strategy that contradicts my actual risk appetite.
This may be a positive point for some readers here. What is better than to think outside the box and look off the beaten track?
But what is the consequence if this high-risk strategy (because suddenly all-in on a certain certificate or single stock) works out and you end up as a winner and high-flyer?
We have to ask ourselves: Are we then still rational and attribute this to our incredible luck, or do we lose ourselves in the belief that we simply "have it" - we could beat the market?
To 4.) Gambling character:
Participating in a stock exchange game is very similar to visiting a casino. Impossible amounts of money are thrown onto the playing field in the shortest possible time, and in the end, luck decides whether player A or B wins.
Question: How many participating players go to work with a real seriousness, with a detailed analysis and the know-how, as if it would be about their own money? Probably the fewest. Because points 1-3 apply. Not my money, not my responsibility.
Players learn the behavior of a toxic irresponsible fund manager, in the style of Lehman and Co.
Re 5) The learning effect is limited.
With the exception of stock exchange games which are carried out at schools and universities and are accompanied pedagogically, the learning effect of the participants for a real investment is almost zero.
Of course I do not want to deny that there are a few conscientious players who deal with their investments and their strategy for the duration of the game. There will be people who learn about and practice with financial vehicles that are new to them, such as certificates, options and levers.
Very few will actually do so. After all, it is a game, with no stake of their own.
If our strategy fails quickly at the beginning of the stock market game, we simply log out of the game and never log in again.
We learn: nothing. Neither do we learn the consequences of our trading (namely the loss of hard-earned money) or that stock markets can turn around just as quickly and the supposed loss suddenly ends with the main profit of the stock market game. Ok, we receive a congratulatory mail - the promised car may be picked up - so we are the heroes of the stock market after all.
Where fun and fiction meet harsh reality, or: What is the alternative to learning to understand the stock market and investing?
There are various ways to take the first steps towards investment and the stock market, which take place outside the casino game.
In this day and age, information on how to get started is a dime a dozen. It is up to the beginners to deal with factual books and media content. Quasi something is offered for each taste Vorgekautes and contents cut into particles. Whether it is Youtube Academy, reference books or blogs. Anyone who wants to learn can do so individually in terms of theory.
Theory must sometimes be dry as dust because it forms the basis for our actions. Who still remembers their driving school days? Theory was often dull and boring... Driving a car or motorcycle, on the other hand, was the real moment of happiness and incentive.
And we should be the same way when starting out in the investment world or even when trying out new strategies.
Of course, this as a warning against misunderstanding, a previous ETF disciple should not throw his hitherto half-baked knowledge about the stock market overboard and sell his capital headlong in shorts and long bets - just for the sake of learning effect, this is of course not a recommendable method.
Likewise, an absolute beginner in investing, should not immediately invest with an all-in in a company alone. Logical. We have sufficiently read the technical literature.
But what always goes (I emphasize this with emphasis), so really ALWAYS goes, is a start on the stock market by savings plan.
Fortunately, we live in times when investing has never been easier, less complicated and more direct.
Already with one Euro you can feel the feeling of "skin in the game".
The learning effect and the AHA moment are immense. Who doesn't remember when the first 100€ were invested, the view in the first 24 hours on the depot was nailed down and suddenly the investment was "only" 97€ "worth"?
Exactly this moment, the hoping and fearing for the own, real investment clarifies the theory of the own skin in the game. We are inevitably forced to detach ourselves from the mere theory to deal with the harsh reality, to accept loss and at best to learn to understand. To admit mistakes and at best not to repeat them.
The easiest way to do this is to invest in a broadly diversified ETF. Advanced investors try themselves out with a single bet, a small certificate or other vehicle.
Everything is possible today with the zero-eight-fifteen, or pay-you-nothing brokers.
Yes, one does not play with money. Absolutely right. That's just where my point is:
When I put my own money on the line, I deal with my investment in all seriousness and consistency. Sure, there are hard-core gamblers among us, but in essence, my request and the statement of trading with own money can probably be confirmed so:
"Nobody likes to lose their own money."
How would I learn "new" on the stock market - What is the alternative?
Absolute newbies in the field of investing are first and foremost advised to invest in an ETF on the ACWI or World ETF. While the first savings installment is paid in and its development is observed, the stock market aspirant should read a book on the subject of investing. At this point I would like to recommend Dr. Gerd Kommer "Souverän investieren mit Indexfonds und ETFs" - certainly not the easiest start, but the most effective, if the readers go to work with the right attitude, ready to learn.
Already invested stock market friends, who want to learn a new tactic or another financial vehicle, one of the Neobroker is recommended. Opening a real money "play money" account here is a matter of 30 minutes and I can learn with the financial vehicles I have chosen. Due to the low costs here is a comparatively reasonable alternative to the mere play money without real value. However, the learning effect and risk control works worlds better than in a pure play money depot.
Conclusion:
I normally reject stock market games for beginners and cannot recommend them for beginners.
Play money depots without real money seem to me to be a waste of time because of the very small, if any, learning effect. Much more interested people should open up the world of investing with the "hard" reality and confrontation with book loss and book profit.
Who really wants to learn and understand stock market, does this with "skin in the game", with the absolute will to learn "something" and to implement this as soon as possible (according to the own financial possibilities). With all emotions and consequences.
"Learning by doing" - in its pure form is better than any monopoly money profit.
Funfact:
The "Collective Inteligence Fund" is based on a stock market game. Its top participants (300 play money fund managers) are supposed to beat the market in the long run. The FAZ recently had an article on this, which, in addition to the Getquin stock market game, motivated me to write this article.
If you want to read more, you can find the article here:
In addition, other articles on the subject of stock market games, with similar criticism:
https://blog.onvista.de/2015/10/ueber-sinn-und-unsinn-von-boersenspielen?hs_amp=true
https://thomasvittner.com/boersenspiel-haende-weg-vom-groesste-unsinn-der-welt/
https://www.friedrich-verlag.de/wirtschaft-politik/maerkte-akteure/investieren-vs-spekulieren-8545
Gold - (k)a safe haven?
(from the series: Your question about precious metals - part 2)
@HerkshireBathaway321 writes:
"... With me the ",crack" goes unfortunately by the family. My spouse trusts to a high degree the (physical) gold.
I am skeptical.
Gold could have had a "3" in front of it with all the distortions of the last years, but at least in the range above 2000 dollars.
None of this is in evidence, prices remain feelingly unimpressed by Corona, war fears, climate change, etc.
My concern is that for the first time in history, gold's role as a "safe haven" may be lost...."
The consideration and fear of whether gold could be a safe haven is a matter of faith.
The question, therefore, is indeed very much an individual one. As described in my post "All gold that glitters?!" (see: https://app.getquin.com/activity/ApWcaXFtjm?lang=de&utm_source=sharing
https://app.getquin.com/activity/ApWcaXFtjm?lang=de&utm_source=sharing), the question can therefore be answered in different ways.
As you can see in the current situation and price development on the precious metal market, I was not so wrong with my assessment a little more than 4 months ago, even if the reasons are probably to be considered differentiated.
At that time I explained under the contribution of @MaxD [source 1] my view regarding the development of the price of gold and "safe haven" issue as follows:
"...The price of gold will still rise with the next interest rate hikes in the EU and the USA, but then slowly join the bears in the market. Either we will then experience a phase of sideways movement or a correction due to the very fact that "you can't eat gold".
One should also keep an eye on the situation in China, here, in addition to gold, currency effects also play a decisive role."
As far as the reasons for such a development are concerned, this is of course to be seen and evaluated in a differentiated manner, as mentioned. Also, the possible reasons in the business can be combined or excluded with the price development and forecast.
Here, nevertheless, different influences play decisive roles... Emergency banks which are on big gold purchase tour [Source 2], but at the same time rising interest rates [source 3] and then the more and more tricky situation in Ukraine... not to mention all the supply chain problems etc. etc.
So why should gold (as industrial metal, speculative object and technology metal) be spared from this? The correlations are just as obvious as with shares or other assets.
Another point that should definitely be considered with gold (as mentioned in my comment at the time...) are the currency effects: The strong dollar has a very different impact on the gold price in USD (1 year: -6.76%) than the resulting valuations for gold in Euro (1 year: +8.68%). 💰 [Graphs 1&2]
If "I" assume that gold will always and increasingly find use as an industrial/technology metal, this is a different scenario than relying on the pure "shine" of the metal....
However, since industrial metals are also always tied to economic situations, the price development is accordingly also understandably coupled (keyword: recession).
As I already stated above: The importance of gold as a technological material is not to be despised and therefore also a reflection of the current, global problems of industry and not least mankind.
What you or your family believe in is therefore quite individual for everyone. Of course, a lump of gold in your home safe can also calm your nerves. If your "spouse" feels security in it, it is at least mentally an important "harbor". ⚓️
What do "we" always say here? The asset has to fit your own risk affinity and imagination. 💡
The idea of the "safe haven" must therefore be reconsidered insofar as one's own interpretation of it must be found.
A right or wrong regarding gold, but also any other asset, is therefore always tied to one's own subjective goal of this asset class and one's own risk tolerance.
Sources:
[1] Contribution of @MaxD (https://app.getquin.com/activity/sPofciTMxJ?lang=de&utm_source=sharing
https://app.getquin.com/activity/sPofciTMxJ?lang=de&utm_source=sharing)
[2] The gold tricks of the central banks - FAZ of 02.11.2022 (https://m.faz.net/aktuell/finanzen/die-gold-tricks-der-notenbanken-400-tonnen-gekauft-18431135.html?premium=0xd14578aa8949f9b04175a9e1ac2e8304&premium=0xd14578aa8949f9b04175a9e1ac2e8304&GEPC=s9)
[2] Why gold fails as inflation protection- ARD from 07.01.2022 (https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/finanzen/warum-gold-als-inflations-hedge-versagt-und-aktien-besser-sind-101.html)
Image sources:
[Image 1] Not a safe haven? - Hamburg - Symbol image from Hamburg24 (https://www.24hamburg.de/hamburg/wetter-sturm-hamburg-unwetter-sturmflut-hochwasser-flughafen-sturmschaeden-fischmarkt-dwd-deutsche-bahn-sturmtief-sabine-hermine-90002020.html)
[Image 2 and 3] Gold price in Euro and USD from gold.de - view on 1 year.
#gold
#rohstoffe
#meinung#fragedelmetalle
#learn
For app users:
Opinion on gold - neutral 🤷🏻♂️🤷♀️
My pension information 🤑💶🇩🇪📉
(By post dated 02.12.2023)
399€ Future pension (without adjustment)
58.700€ Deposit
10,6 Fee points (see image below for details)
I paid in for 15 years and no longer have to do so as a self-employed person. I save and invest myself, I'm not naive and I don't rely on the state.
-Last year, the ailing German pension system had to be saved from collapse with €108 billion in taxpayers' money or debt/borrowing. And the trend is rising. This insurance has been bankrupt for many years and has not worked for a long time.
-The US-style stock pension (Roth IRA, 401k) is apparently not coming. We don't get a tax bonus for the pension like the investors over there.
-The so-called equity pension is to become "generational capital", which means a small subsidy of €10-12 billion, which will then be invested. This is supposed to be a start, which may be increased in the future. However, it is uncertain whether this will happen. Nothing has been decided yet either.
-Furthermore, it is to be expected that the tax and levy champion of the world will later tax the state pension.
-We can also expect a further reduction in the pension level and, of course, a higher retirement age.
-Therefore, I think it cannot be stressed enough today to reduce consumption and maximize savings rates in order to invest and increase money.
-Financial security also favors better medical care and therefore a longer life. Health insurance benefits will also be reduced or become more expensive. We therefore have no idea how expensive it will be for us as pensioners. It is better to be prepared than to be faced with unsolvable problems and suffer later on.
>How much pension do you say you will receive and how much have you paid in so far?
>>How many pension points have you already collected?
#rente
#aktienrente
#pfandflaschenrente
#sparen
#sparplan
#sparpläne
#geld
#deutschland
#meinung
#hilfe
#vorsorge
$VWRL
$MC YOUR OPINION? 25k invest 10-15years
Hey,
would like to hear your opinions.
I want to invest 25.000€ for at least 10-15years.
Dividend is not the big goal rather performance. (If dividend comes, I take but also like ;) )
My selection would be now so (current P/E ratio first no matter, only the selection goes)
10,000€ - A2PKXG - Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF - USD ACC
5,000€ - A0YJQ2 - Berkshire Hathaway Class B
2,000€ - 870747 - Microsoft
1,000€ - 852062 - Procter & Gamble
1,000€ - 856958 - McDonalds
1,000€ - 850663 - Coca Cola
1,000€ - 840221 - Hannover Re
1,000€ - 853292 - Lvmh
1,000€ - A0NC7B - Visa
500€ - 918422 - NVIDIA
500€ - A2H58J - Amundi MSCI Emerging Markets UCITS ETF EUR (C)
500€ - A0MM0S - iShares Global Water UCITS ETF
500€ - 858560 - Eli Lilly
-------------------------
25,000€
=========
Thank you & greetings :)
Hey 👋🏼
I am a silent reader so far and would appreciate your feedback/tips regarding my question.
A year ago (actually much too late 🫥) I have intensively dealt with financial education and save since then in the Vanguard FTSE All Word. Since a few months also a few individual stocks, but its portfolio value is not really worth mentioning ;).
I am wondering what investment strategy would be good for my situation & plans. I want to emigrate and turn my back on DE and try to take my job with me, whether that will work is dare. Otherwise, I am considering self-employment with establishment abroad (tax aspects). Until then, I would like to save relatively much to secure me on the one hand and on the other hand and to choose a savings measure that is adequate in the long term.
Either I try that what is left in the month, about 700-1000 euros continue to flow into the ETF or half of it further in individual shares broadly to spread and expand the portfolio as well as broadly. 🥸
Other investments such as crypto (Yieldnotes) go through my head, but do not bet primarily on the horse 🐎.
Otherwise I have the famous 3 net salaries on the daily allowance as a nest egg.
I'm really torn 🫠 about the tactics, especially since it may also be that you have to take out money sometimes (such as founding abroad).
I hope you were able to follow me to some extent 🙈.
Maybe you have other options that I have not yet considered. Therefore, I would be very happy about your feedback. Thanks 🙏🏼 in advance!
\ question out of curiosity ///
What is your take on the term dividend growth in the context of strategic selection of mostly individual stocks, but also dividend ETFs?
I have the feeling that at least here on Getquin the term is seen as a middle ground between "classic" dividend payers (e.g. VW, BASF, Telekom) as well as growth stocks (e.g. Amazon, Alphabet, Electronic Arts).
In my opinion, however, the opposite is true: a company with dividend growth (often very long period of dividend increase) is an extreme form of a dividend payer due to the reinforcement of the feature of dividend payment as the focus of the company and thus even further away from the middle between growth and substance stocks. An increase in the dividend does not yet lead to an increase in sales and thus to a growth in the share price.
Have you also noticed what I consider to be an erroneous use of the term?
What do you think?
Base:
https://www.finanzfluss.de/geldanlage/value-growth-aktien/