8Mon·

Luxury or basic need: what do we really need to live?


Hey everyone!

At the moment, I'm often asking myself what really counts as a basic need and what is a luxury.


The boundaries sometimes seem to be quite blurred - but is that really the case?


For me Food, housing, heating, electricity and clean water are clearly part of the minimum standard that everyone should be entitled to. (Not to mention basic medical care).

These things are necessary to live a healthy, safe and dignified life.

When we talk about basic services, such basic services should be accessible and affordable for everyone.


But what about other things that are often taken for granted?

Alcohol, tobacco or even vacation trips are examples that, in my opinion, should be seen more as luxury goods - and here I think there are good arguments for and against.


Arguments in favor of seeing these things as luxuries:


Health risksAlcohol and tobacco are known to be harmful to health and are not a basis for a healthy life. Some might say that such stimulants should not be part of the basic diet, as they are the opposite of a necessity.

Costs and quality of lifeVacation trips may contribute to relaxation and personal development for many, but they are not a prerequisite for a secure life.


Arguments against seeing them as a luxury:


Quality of life and mental healthA vacation or even a glass of wine can significantly improve quality of life. Some people would say that relaxation, self-care and enjoyment are also part of a dignified life - not just the bare minimum standard of living.

Social expectationsThere is also the point that our society often sees a certain way of life as standard. Things like vacations in particular have become normal for many and an important social issue - it can be stressful to be excluded here.


In the end, I personally think there should be a balance:

Basic needs must be secured for everyone, and that should always come first.

Luxury goods can enrich the quality of life, but in my opinion they are not necessary to live a safe and healthy life.


For example, I myself cannot understand why some people have an attitude that everyone must be able to go on vacation 2-3 times a year and that this must also be affordable. Regardless of your profession or income. (I'm not talking about an extended weekend in a self-catering guesthouse, but a club hotel vacation with a flight, at least 4 stars, etc.)


I currently go on a small vacation once or twice a year, but I don't consider it normal and am grateful that my job allows me to do so.

As a child, apart from an extended weekend with relatives, I didn't have a "real" vacation with my family and so I didn't really miss it.

But I also didn't grow up with this kind of vacation/recreation as standard.


How do you see it?

Where do you draw the line between necessity and luxury?


If you see vacations as a necessity and not a luxury:

Should there then also be a state budget for low incomes when going on vacation, so that e.g. pensioners, families with low incomes etc. can apply for appropriate support?

(Until 2010, for example, recipients of basic income support and Hartz IV in Germany could apply for money once a year to have a vacation up to X amount paid for by the authorities. This no longer exists and such a funding pot has been completely dissolved).


#luxury
#discussion
#finance

22
37 Comments

profile image
I see it exactly as you do. The best people are those who go on vacation 3 times a year but then complain that real estate is so expensive and nobody can afford a single-family home anymore.

But I also lead a rather minimalist lifestyle. Never smoked. Gave up alcohol years ago. I don't value status at all. And I also find vacations at home super relaxed. I pay a lot for my apartment, so I want to get something out of it 😁
20
profile image
@DonkeyInvestor I'm the same and if you do something then it's a 1-2 day city sightseeing thing or mountain hiking
1
profile image
@topicswithhead although mountain hiking also costs a lot of money
profile image
@Alpalaka Do you charge admission to the mountains?
2
profile image
@Alpalaka Where does it cost a lot? Maybe the stub where you buy expensive food but otherwise? Probably depends on how you do mountain hiking
profile image
@DonkeyInvestor
To be honest, I wouldn't describe my lifestyle as minimalist, but I'm not wasteful either.
If I want something and the investment is worthwhile for me, I buy myself luxuries.

For example, last year I bought new, slightly more expensive headphones, some of which I also use at work.

I gave up smoking years ago and I can probably count the days I drink alcohol on one hand.

I have the privilege of living in a property and can therefore save a lot of money as I only have service charges and property reserves as costs. (Something that is currently much cheaper for me than a rented apartment by far).
1
profile image
@DonkeyInvestor @topicswithhead well, when I'm in the mountains, I'm already out there for 3-5 days so that I can get around properly.
Overnight stay 40€, food 20€, beer 8€. Including food during the day, you can quickly add up to 100€/day. On top of that, you also have decent equipment, which is not even included.

"How to do mountain hiking": If I arrive at a hut on day 3, which is only supplied by helicopter and the soup costs €18, am I supposed to starve?


Of course, this is a completely different matter for day tours and is definitely cheap!
2
profile image
@Alpalaka I think I'm simpler, but of course hiking can also be expensive. I've often gone hiking for a week in Switzerland to Gravebünde or somewhere like that, but I'm not really equipped. Normal shoes, a change of clothes and warm clothes, a good pack and off you go. I only eat the rest of the food from the hotel or supermarket when I'm out hiking. Switzerland is a bit more expensive, but even there it wasn't incredibly expensive. I don't go on week-long trips either, but a mountain is a maximum of one day and then it's from mountain to mountain, from morning to evening
1
profile image
@Staatsmann but did you also have high initial expenses for property? Or did you inherit / live in an RTL2 bargain house?
profile image
@topicswithhead Ay ok then that's different. Are you talking about day trips?
profile image
@Alpalaka yes okay. I don't really do multi-day tours. I want to sleep in my own stable at night
2
View all 3 further answers
profile image
I have a lot to do with people with disabilities in my job, and many of them are terminally ill. There is the large group that constantly struggles with their fate and there is the small group that doesn't constantly complain about what they can no longer do, but are happy about what they can still do despite their limitations. In my opinion, this can be transferred well to the topic
6
profile image
Good morning dear @Staatsmann,
I see it the same way as you, I think it's partly due to the poor circumstances I come from. From single mother to unemployment/household & mother.
Vacation was also a highlight back then👌 I also have to say that I don't like being "fucked" on vacation. -> Tourist spots etc.
I don't need to visit every spot because it's trendy or popular on social media.

The Buddhist philosophy of life lets me live every day and appreciate what I have. I don't even have this "I need a vacation from work" because I've found a balance in life that makes it possible to turn everything into a highlight. What's more, you live most in pain -> in different ways.

On the point of enjoyment & comsum:
Enjoy a bag every now and then but otherwise no suffering like alcohol, cigarettes or anything else.
Also try to avoid caffeine and sugar as much as possible, exceptions prove the rule.

Simply grateful for what I have instead of being ungrateful for everything that isn't there.
4
profile image
Great contribution as always!
3
profile image
Devils Advocate: there are millions being fed by the welfare state who can work.

Now come up with a state budget for vacations, you're still doing well.

There are 25 rather 30 days of normal vacation here for every working person. A luxury compared to other countries.

Sorry, complete nonsense and before someone comes with a right/left club, I grew up in a simple working class family myself.

Rather reduce the whole state apparatus significantly, abolish bureaucracy and regulation / subsidies / citizen's income.

An unconditional basic income of €500-1,000 for everyone, no matter who, just don't starve to death and that's my opinion. 🤓 Yes, even those who work get it.

So gebug Stammtischpöbeln 😂
2
profile image
@Papiertiger At least for Germany, the millions don't really apply, because unfortunately we have a lot of people on social welfare who should be retired, but that's a different issue.

What else do you think about the initial question?
Are vacations, tobacco products and the like a luxury or basic necessities?
1
profile image
@Staatsmann Luxury. I see mobility and social participation more as basic needs.
1
profile image
@Papiertiger In the big cities, a basic income of €1000 won't get you very far. It might just cover the rent.
profile image
@Metis Not everyone has to live in big cities.
profile image
@Papiertiger But that's mainly because of work. Otherwise, you'll quickly have a problem with mobility in smaller cities and will inevitably spend the money you save on rent on public transport or a car.
No matter what you do.
profile image
@Metis If you work in a big city. Minijob 500€ or full-time minimum wage ~13€ h /=~1.500€ net. + 500 to 1,000€ basic income, that will probably be enough....
profile image
@Papiertiger And do you know how many people are already struggling to get by on a €1,500 salary, especially when looking for an apartment?
profile image
@Metis Yes, of course. But that's just throwing smoke and mirrors.
profile image
@Papiertiger So social participation in the sense of leisure activities (museum, theater, sports club, etc.)?

Or what do you have in mind there?
profile image
@Staatsmann Yes. D-ticket and museum, sports club etc. In my opinion, the problem is not availability, but a jumble of special offers here and there. Anyone who has ever dealt with the SGB, subsidy, here and there offers, only realizes that it is completely confusing.
profile image
I think vacations can be both a luxury and a necessity. A vacation becomes a luxury when you don't see it as relaxation or other added value, but instead it becomes a status symbol to fly so and so often to expensive and fancy places just so you can show off on social media or impress your colleagues.

And for low-income families in particular, I think it would be important to make social benefits available for vacations too.

Otherwise... I'm not used to going on vacation every year, I haven't grown up that much either. I mainly vacation on balconies or at festivals, I don't drink alcohol and I don't smoke either.
1
profile image
@Metis But where would you draw the (realistic) line? :)

For example, my cousin (a single parent with no child support) says that the clichéd club hotel vacation in Egypt or Morocco ends up being cheaper for her and her 2 children than going to the Harz Mountains for a long weekend. (To put it exaggeratedly.)

But I know that in the past, this vacation allowance for lower incomes also stipulated which countries you could go to and how much it could cost.
profile image
@Staatsmann To be honest, I don't know whether price should still be the decisive criterion. Precisely because a domestic vacation in Germany can cost as much or more than a vacation abroad.
I would rather say what the purpose of the vacation should be, what you want to do. For example, visiting museums or something like that, showing the children other nations, blah blah blah. Does it have to be in a 4 or 5 star hotel? No, it can also be in less luxurious or expensive places.
profile image
I'm 23 years old and the last time I went on a real vacation was 7 years ago. Every 2-3 years there was a weekend in Austria, but that was with a tent or a self-catering guesthouse. Colleagues of mine seem to go away all the time, but as you say, I don't miss it because I'm no longer "used" to it. Of course I would like to travel from time to time, but my financial situation is simply more important to me at the moment. Overall, I'm also dealing with the issue of "what do I need at all" at the moment. My goal is a savings rate of 40%, but when do you start to live and treat yourself to something?
1
profile image
Hello,

For some people I live lavishly and for others minimalistically.

(1) Minimalist
Invest 30-40% of my salary
Eating out a maximum of 1-2 times a month
10% security for extraordinary expenses

(2) Spendthrift
I save 10-15% a month for my vacation fund. I then like to spend this money on great vacations. E.g. Brazil, Rhodes, South Tyrol this year.
On vacation, I don't turn over every cent twice.

I think you have to find a balance. Life is too beautiful not to enjoy it.
1
profile image
Grundbedürfnisse
profile image
What does "basic services should be affordable" mean? So does that mean completely paid for by taxpayers while they work themselves to the bone?
profile image
@Investor_in_Jogginghose Wrong.
But in my view, the minimum quality of life should be available to everyone.

In other words, anyone who is not in gainful employment (illness, unemployment, etc.) must still be able to afford food so as not to starve, and everyone should be able to find affordable housing, regardless of their profession or whether they are currently retired.
profile image
In my opinion, we in Germany have lost our sense of proportion when it comes to luxury spending.
Expensive cars, tobacco, alcohol, but skimping on the important things. Back then, the chain smokers in the club were upset that the club fee had to be raised from 12 to 15 euros to cover the costs of the club premises.
I am very glad that my partner has been ticking like me for almost 6 years. We earn well (relatively speaking). Nevertheless, I regularly notice that we live more frugally than some of our acquaintances, who I can assume have less. Others go on vacation 2-3 times a year. Often for a week. We went to Hamburg/Kiel once this year (1 week, train from Rhineland-Palatinate) Once to Scotland for 10 (ferry and train, one night and two and three-quarter days in Amsterdam) the journey was certainly not cheaper than a flight, but somehow felt more down-to-earth and was an experience in itself. We stayed with relatives. Of course we've already flown and will do so again. But hotels and resorts feel like a waste of money, whereas I don't actually experience anything.

But if you don't have much money and see a vacation as a basic need, you also have options these days. You just have to see which ones. Visiting friends who live further away and setting up an air mattress for a few days, hostels, campsites with tents or similar are often much more affordable and often more interesting. However, they are often not what others imagine.
Join the conversation