1Yr
A further thought: The title says why you shouldn't bet on high dividends when you're young. But the article shows why you shouldn't bet on it later either, i.e. de facto never! Now all that's needed is an article explaining why so many bet on dividends despite the numbers. Because that's what I'm wondering more and more.
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@Epi because it's cool Seriously, it's just fun and gives me a certain financial freedom from day 1. Maybe I will write something about it.
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@DividendenWaschbaer I also see it that way. Of course, it has to be said that we should distinguish between a few things in the discussion, first and foremost whether we are talking about funds (which often come in both varieties) or individual stocks. Because with single stocks, if I want a diversification that is worthy of its name, I actually have to bet on both growth stocks and dividend stocks (what otherwise happens to me only with growth stocks, you can see quite well in the portfolios of ARK or Frank Thelen). And then it is certainly a question of whether one is in the accumulation or withdrawal phase (apart from the fact that as you write, some also feel motivated by dividends in the accumulation phase and so perhaps also invest more). Living on sales in the withdrawal phase is a variant that is always cited, but if I say I need amount X every month and generate it through sales, I automatically sell more in bad times, which is not very conducive to maintaining the capital stock. Also, multiple fluctuations are not taken into account in these models, which again increase the effect significantly in case of doubt. So I personally handle it so that I invest what I need to live + buffer in distributing investment forms, the rest is put in accumulating. In addition, dividends privately, Growth in the GmbH, so that also the Thesaurieren still tax-optimized runs off.
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@Epi I think the main aspect is the motivation. Seeing and receiving a constant increase in dividends is just pushing :> For me, this is possibly also the reason why I might continue to save the dividend payout after exhausting the tax-free allowance :>
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•1Yr
@DividendenWaschbaer You have to explain the point about FF through dividend investment in more detail. Because to get about 5€ Div, I have to give up 100€. Sounds to me like the opposite of financial freedom.
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1Yr
@TreasureHunter The point with the motivation I read here actually always, if the numbers speak again times against DivInvest. But I don't really understand it either. Why should I be more motivated by the numbers on the account statement called dividends than the number called total capital? With the dividend strategy I demonstrably forego returns. This very point would demotivate me quite a bit.
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•@Epi I also do not understand 100% 😅 is just a trend, whose progress can be well represented eg on Instagram
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@Epi Financial freedom is always relative, of course. Of course, I lose performance. I don't have so much time, so I try to keep it short. Ultimately, the 5€ dividend a month gives me the opportunity to decide whether I reinvest it, or whether I already want to treat myself to something. At 5€, it's not much. But for example with my post from a few minutes ago: i expect 1550€ dividend this year or ~130€ a month. I can reinvest it of course, I could collect it and take a vacation for it or I could lease some small car from the 130€ in case I need/want a new one (is just one of many possible examples). This gives me so to speak already now the freedom to forgo investing and to treat myself already now without having to sell shares in a possibly bad market environment. This is now only roughly and can of course be expanded. For me, these ~130 € per month but already mean a certain freedom. Of course, at the expense of compound interest. Ultimately, it motivates and it reassures me to know that I can already have something of it without selling shares. If my depot would stand on e.g. 70000€ and I receive 5000€ of dividends, go of it into the vacation, then the vacation is "free" and I still have 70000€. If my portfolio was 100,000 and I had to sell 5000€ to go on vacation, I would feel bad. Now the contribution has become a little longer but as I said, is only scratched superficially and purely rationally, of course, it does not really make sense. But the feel-good factor rises with me for it the more.
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@Investorentagebuch This can be done, and is certainly better than a pure div strategy. But I would check again whether the risk-reward profile is optimal. In the last 100 years at least, the best strategy has demonstrably been: growth + withdrawal. If you want a reliable, high perpetual withdrawal rate in the withdrawal phase, the vola has to come down. The best way to do that is with bonds. The second-best strategy is therefore: savings phase - growth, withdrawal phase - bonds. In between, a tax-optimized transition. Nowhere do I see dividends, except as a little extra income with growth stocks. Please explain my mistake!
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•@Epi I say yes, it makes less sense rationally than going purely for performance. It's just a psychological thing. It's not about the best strategy, but about the best possible strategy in combination with feeling good. And I don't feel comfortable when I'm forced to sell shares, no matter how the market is doing or how I see the portfolio getting smaller and smaller, because I have to sell regularly. As I said: it's a purely psychological thing.
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•1Yr
@TreasureHunter Yes, that's probably the case! 😅 But sorry, I understand the trend even less. DivInvest still makes some sense in times of negative interest rates. But this trend is over! Instafinfluencers are lagging reality by at least 1 year. What is in trend is who can show their monthly coupon payments through their high yield corp bonds. These are currently 7-9%pa! The 4% dividends are so yesterday! The dividend trend is as trendy as moccasins. 😂
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