user76a909fd734442d1@user76a909fd734442d1

1Yr

@user76a909fd734442d1 And why not?

••

1Yr

@Epi How should it affect morale? They are 2 different things.
Do you mean if I earn 2k and make 2k plus in one day that I want to quit because of that? And if I make 2k minus I work overtime?

••

1Yr

@user76a909fd734442d1 I mean rather that if, for example, the fluctuations of the portfolio rise or fall by an average of 2k every day of the year, i.e. sometimes 10k rise, 20k fall, then nothing at all. Or in other words: your portfolio has fluctuations of 20x monthly salary per month. At some point, the salary becomes irrelevant because it then only accounts for 1/20 of all income. Or to put it another way: you can work for a whole year and lose or gain the equivalent in 14 days.

In short: earned income becomes pretty much irrelevant in terms of numbers. So why should you still work for money?

••

Kevin E.@KevinE

1Yr

@user76a909fd734442d1 same here. I also have fluctuations (significantly) > salary. But my dividend growth strategy, which yields more every year, doesn't yet yield enough to stop worrying. At some point it will and I'll have the option every month whether to keep working or not. I also plan to continue investing at least 10% in "retirement". This should always allow for an increase in income (adjusted for inflation) in the long term. Of course, it will take years, but as I wouldn't stop working at the moment anyway, I'm not asking myself that question yet. It will be exciting when I no longer feel like working.

•

1

•

Patrick@Pithh

1Yr

@user76a909fd734442d1 I think long-term. I'm in the red this year. No matter. At some point it will turn positive again. The accounts are settled on sale. Before that, it's just book values.

••

GeldGenie@GeldGenie

1Yr

@Epi There are people who work because they find a purpose in it?

Or simply because they contribute to society.

I would never stop "working" myself, no matter what. I always enjoy my jobs and I can see what I can and have achieved in my role. 😊

•

1

•

GeldGenie@GeldGenie

1Yr

@Epi @Epi There are people who work because they find a purpose in it?

Or simply because they contribute to society.

I would never stop "working" myself, no matter what. I always enjoy my jobs and I can see what I can and have achieved in my role. 😊

••

1Yr

@GeldGenie It's good that there are people like that!

••

GeldGenie@GeldGenie

1Yr

@Epi Without it, shares wouldn't work, let alone the economy. Whether the "work-life-balance" generation and the "travel-on-ALG1" noses can/will keep this up remains to be seen. 😊 (Cynical 😉)

•

1

•

View all 8 further answers

1Yr

@GeldGenie I also find it funny how many here look forward to a nice life from passive income without considering that the plan only works if it doesn't work for most people 😉.

••

Patrick ₿ateman@fastlane

1Yr

It has no effect on my work ethic. The only thing I notice is that when my salary increases rapidly by a factor of x in a very short period of time, I look at the depot much more often than usual

•

2

•

user76a909fd734442d1@user76a909fd734442d1

1Yr

@fastlane I didn't mean such short-term fluctuations. I meant when they are quite normal.
Example: 2k net, portfolio value 200k, average daily volume 2k.

I.e. you go to work and know that you will most likely work for free for the month or that you can flip the coin afterwards.

In other words: your earned income is marginal compared to the deposit. Would that make a difference?

••

1Yr

Well, because you can pay in 1k when you're working and have to take 1k out when you're not working. Besides, you don't just go to work for the money, but also for a regular work routine, conversations with colleagues, etc.

•

2

•

Testo-Investor@Testo-Investor

1Yr

Is currently the case... I'm 0 itchy, but green would be
Better than red 😂 all the gains from the beginning of 2024 are just disappearing into thin air...

•

2

•

Testo-Investor@Testo-Investor

1Yr

@Testo-Investor Why do you care about losing 0? If the goal is to win, it sucks to lose, right?

•

1

•

1Yr

@Epi because I can't influence it anyway. I can only continue to buy massively and everything will go up in the long term ... that's the theory....

I don't give a shit about the money, so it doesn't hurt, but I'm really looking forward to a deep red portfolio! More good entries :-))

•

1

•

1Yr

@Testo-Investor Surely you remember the NFT hype in 2021? First it went up x1000% in a short time, then everything went back to square one. People who got in massively made massive losses (from 1 to 10000 and back to 1 again). The garbage is no longer worth anything and never will be.

What makes you sure that Shitcoins (not Bitcoin!) will go up in the long term? Nothing has to happen. It can go the same way as NFTs. The economic benefit is similar.

Whatever the case may be. I'd like to know if it would affect your work ethic if your cryptos made 10x by the end of 2024.

•

1

•

Testo-Investor@Testo-Investor

1Yr

@Testo-Investor How did you build up your portfolio so that all the gains from 2024 are already disappearing into thin air? 😂😅 That's just a minimal kink in the increases since the beginning of the year. I'm still up easily 15% YTD. I hope we can go much lower still

••

Unbekannt@Pirat123

1Yr

@Epi you have only made losses when you actually sell. Likewise with profits. Otherwise, these are just fictitious figures!
The lower the price falls, the better the subsequent purchase. So it's actually perfect 😅

••

1Yr

@Epi I'm not even worried about 10x ... Because both Bitcoin and ETH certainly won't perform like this until the end of the year :D But if I suddenly had 300k in my portfolio instead of 30k, that would of course be brutal... But it wouldn't have any effect because I've already achieved a lot anyway and have everything I ever dreamed of... So I'm very satisfied.

•

1

•

Niklas@ISuperIToxicI

1Yr

@Testo-Investor With a portfolio of €100,000, a 4% return is €4,000. Of course, if the price falls at distribution and the portfolio is still €100,000, assuming the portfolio falls to €90,000, the 4% return is still €3,600.

The distribution is reinvested and due to the growth rate it does not make much difference in the long run how the share price develops as long as the dividend remains.

As I have been investing for 10+ years, my portfolio has already doubled thanks to the two Tesla splits.
Just stick to your savings plan and don't let the price fluctuations affect you too much.
10% up/down is always possible...
But with a constant return and the growth rate, you should realize what I'm talking about after 1-2 years. :)

•

1

•

Banana M.@Banana_Millionaire

1Yr

As I'm currently at almost 50% crypto in my portfolio, it actually does. But I don't know why it should affect my work ethic.

•

1

•

DonMassaBuanaEfendi@DonMassaBuanaEfendi

1Yr

@Banana_Millionaire As long as it's only temporary, of course, it's always there. But in the long term, earned income will be marginalized.

••

1Yr

Definitely both up and down, but only for a few moments at a time 😊

•

1

•

Schweizer_Investor@Alumdria

1Yr

I would have to inject a hell of a lot of capital into the market for that to happen 😅

•

1

•

1Yr

@Alumdria... Sure! Or earn damn little. 😁

But what would it do then?

••

Joshy@Joshy

1Yr

I'm not quite there yet, but such fluctuations don't bother me and won't bother me for the time being. I just notice how I lose touch with money from time to time. But that doesn't change my work ethic.

•

1

•

1Yr

@Joshy What do you mean by "losing touch with money"?

••

1Yr

It's the same for me and it doesn't change anything for me. Keep paying in, keep growing and when it's my annual salary per month, then you can think about other plans

•

1

•

1Yr

@userea7182027eb24a4d If a month's salary fluctuates in one day, a year's salary will fluctuate in 14 days.
What changes for you?

••

1Yr

@Epi You assume that things only ever go in one direction, unfortunately I don't live in that world. The fact that my annual salary is added or lost in 14 days or 1 month is currently the exception and not the rule

••

1Yr

@userea7182027eb24a4d And what would it do if it were the rule and not the exception? That's what I'm asking.

••

1Yr

@Epi Depends on my life situation, do I have children etc.? Quit my job if necessary and spend more time with my family

••

1Yr

@userea7182027eb24a4d So it would do something to morale after all?

••

1Yr

@Epi the question was about monthly salaries in daily fluctuations and I said that I already have that and it doesn't change anything. The statement is still true, as I continue to work as normal and look forward to being able to save and invest several thousand euros every month

•

1

•

1Yr

@userea7182027eb24a4d Please do not keep changing my question!

I asked what would happen if daily fluctuations in salary became the norm. You don't have the status yet. But anyway, good luck to you!

••

1Yr

@Epi Of course I have the status. A daily fluctuation in salary is the rule for me and it's the exception when it doesn't reach this level. Sometimes it goes into the plus and sometimes into the minus. What I don't have yet is my annual salary as the fluctuation of an average month (precisely because the daily fluctuations are both positive and negative).

•

1

•

1Yr

@userea7182027eb24a4d Yes, that's right. THAT would be the next stage - monthly fluctuations in the annual salary range. So something should change from then on, right?

••

View all 2 further answers

1Yr

@Epi for me personally. However, it is often the case that opinions change once you have achieved what you set out to do. It's often the same in sport. You want to gain 10 kg of muscle mass. Once you've achieved the 10 kg, you want another 10 and you always think that once you've achieved that you'll be 100% satisfied and then you achieve it and have even bigger goals in mind

••

SG@RundesBalli1

1Yr

I often have fluctuations of +-3000€, which can get on your nerves (in both directions), but after many years I am now very relaxed.

•

1

•

1Yr

@RundesBalli1 And how did you manage that? Simply habit and the experience that it also relativizes itself again?

••

SG@RundesBalli1

1Yr

@Epi I bought my first shares/funds over 15 years ago. Over the years, I have familiarized myself with the subject matter and, after 2008 and 2020, have seen that the world continues to turn.

•

1

•

Dom@SSVDom

1Yr

The fluctuations don't bother me. I invest in dividend stocks and there should be an annual increase in the dividend, the portfolio value doesn't play such a big role

•

1

•

1Yr

is already the case for me, but it only has a very subordinate effect on my work ethic. most likely it encourages me personally to work even harder and earn more, so that my deposits still have "weight" when building up my portfolio, especially when the deposit goes down. however, i notice that it has an effect on my consumption behavior. i now treat myself much more and no longer turn over every euro three times. why question a 20€ expenditure when the deposit fluctuates by several thousand euros per day at the same time?

•

1

•

1Yr

@Anon Interested! Why does the work ethic remain unaffected by fluctuations of several thousand euros per day, but not the spending ethic? After all, both have to do with money.

•

1

•

1Yr

@Epi interesting question, difficult to answer. i would classify work ethic as a character trait, consumer behavior rather as a (semi)conscious decision, not as an "inherent trait". so the two things are not directly comparable in my eyes.

••

1Yr

@Epi maybe it's also due to the period under consideration. if it goes down by 2-4 net salaries on a monthly basis, it does something to my head. i think i used to be more relaxed when you could simply iron out the monthly fluctuations with deposits. if you pay in and pay in but the total value goes down, that's not pleasant :D

•

1

•

1Yr

@Anon Well, to put it another way: the conscious decision to spend more money corresponds to the decision to earn less money, e.g. by not working overtime or part-time. In both cases, you end up with less money and more "luxury". Why one decision but not the other?

••

1Yr

@Epi hm, i don't know, i don't think you can / i can't break it down that rationally. i don't have much of a problem with not working overtime, because the work is still there and it's too mentally taxing for me when too many open issues pile up. at the same time, i enjoy working and it gives me something meaningful to do. when i'm at home for a long weekend, i can go up the walls by the third day because i feel kind of useless and have no plan for how i can spend my time productively

•

1

•

1Yr

@Anon Interesting! So this shows that work is more important to you than earning money?
So it could be that you're already financially free... 🧐

But that's only because you've made your well-being dependent on something else. Interesting...thanks!

•

1

•

1Yr

@Epi i consider "financial freedom" and "passive income" to be a meme. i accept the idea of being free from financial worries, but i couldn't live on the income beyond that in the long term, at best i could survive by drastically cutting back on consumption. although in my eyes that wouldn't be a meaningful life either. i think that a person without a purpose would simply perish. mentally as well as physically.

••

1Yr

@Epi by the way, thank you very much for your valuable contributions to this forum, which i follow with great interest. your posts and critical comments always offer added value and are very entertaining. please keep it up :-)

•

1

•

1Yr

@Anon I would describe someone as financially free if they CAN live entirely from their investment income. I also think that FF can be unhealthy. People need a job.

I find the thought interesting, what would I do with the FF - and why am I not already doing that? 😅

••