2Yr

Unpopular opinion of mine probably, but: I personally am not a fan of "tax optimization". Yes, it is legal, as well as vv GmbHs. People who have enough money that they can put aside well (like me for example) should still make their tax contribution. On the contrary, I would rather try to reduce the loopholes for wealthy people and reduce the tax burden in general (especially on earned income and pensions). Otherwise the gap between wealthy and destitute is widening mMn. Either being a millionaire at 50 or living from hand to mouth cannot be the concept of the future.

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2Yr

@KevinC You can certainly argue about that. Personally, however, I think it's important to create an incentive for listed buildings to be beautifully restored and thus to preserve our culture. I'm right there with you when it comes to wild holding and foundation structures.

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2Yr

@TradingMelone @KevinC that just the interesting part I have daily in the profession so structures to advise or build 😅 As long as it is legal and it Rechnet why not? You still pay taxes, just as little as necessary?

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2Yr

@DerSteuerberater No, that's exactly the attitude that I don't think is fair. I see myself as an achiever in society. I can contribute more to the common good than the street sweeper or the hairdresser. I don't need to renovate (have renovated) with the support of the state and then profit even more from the fact that 50% of the population spend (have to spend) all the money they have (usually from employment) to make ends meet. If an employee pays more taxes in percentage terms than a multimillionaire (because he finances 37 apartments and makes hardly any profit on paper), that goes against my sense of justice. That's just my (financially stupid for me, I know) point of view. VV GmbH would probably be worthwhile for me now or in a few years. Then I would have even more advantages over the small savers. Is not my world. I feel taxes are an important contribution and it should be fairly distributed. I can only start with myself. I could talk about tax waste in the same way, but there I have even less influence. But I would also put it on the political agenda.

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2Yr

@KevinC I also say nothing against it, I'm all your opinion, but why should I pay for something 100 if I can pay for 30 is just there the thing. Clearly is considered on the poor man at the checkout at Lidl not fair, but he would probably do nothing else in the situation of the other. Berate also nothing soo Krasses or persuade people rather here to pay taxes than somewhere else. Most (not young) understand that and we then build something to save taxes here. This also works very well. Man comes then not on 0% but on 15% and that is enough for most then 🤷🏼 Make then with those, for further savings, mostly charitable foundations that then finance something for which the stand.

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2Yr

@DerSteuerberater I don't blame you or your industry. Nobody should pay too much tax. It's up to the state to make the conditions fair mMn. My dad (as a freelancer) was always advised to spend more money on the car, because that would be financially more worthwhile. Only ever bought a new car when he really needed it - as any employee would have done. I see a lot of the wrong incentives. I'm in favor of making buildings worthwhile, without having to help out with taxes (the state is a big price driver, especially in the case of historic buildings). On the other hand, I have many colleagues (in the engineering and automotive sectors) who work overtime because the taxes take so much out of it anyway that it's not really worth it for them. But we really need these hours (from the employer's point of view), and I think it would be fair to tax overtime (e.g. from the 41st hour) at a lower rate. Or generally a model a la 401k / USA. By the way, you can't earn that bad at Lidl, I was there for 3 years as a working student. You have to work there too, but financially, I think the cost/income ratio is right. At least from assistant to sales management / department management; was in a regional warehouse, not in branch). What others do I can not change. I don't dope (in amateur cycling); if someone else does, I still don't have to copy that. But the result is similar to finances (except for the physical damage).

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Epi@Epi

2Yr

@KevinC I agree with most of what you say, but the other side of the coin is that if there are no tax breaks for renovations, no one will do it anymore. Taxes are more than just government revenue. They are also supposed to "control" the economy and the flow of money. The money of the rich will flow somewhere, in this case rather into old houses.

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2Yr

@Epi d'accord! Have it very simplified, I think your criticism is legitimate!

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2Yr

@KevinC yes, there are many interesting things from different countries in thema taxes. The interest up there is just unfortunately capital directed, although it is much better with us in Germany than in other countries such as Eastern Europe or South America 😅 Even if it were fair, there would still be my job, because people just want to pay less 🤷🏼

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𝙼𝚊𝚗𝚞@FrauManu

2Yr

Yes, at some point I've heard that it should be very lucrative from a tax point of view, but I didn't pursue that further 😩 But it definitely seems to be worth it. However, I think it is very difficult to get to these objects of love, because the Cotten / yard / villa or similar "under the hand" is sold, without the one makes it at all public, so it is with us in the area at least. Thank you for your work 👉🏻 @ccf for it

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2Yr

@FrauManu Fortunately, we have good connections. Or rather my boss and could thus already implement really nice things. I think anyway that it is the wrong approach only to look in the area. I have no desire to deal with all the side stuff at an immo when I want it for myself. Since I have it rather for a few Euronen more in a property management.

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Hannes@Hannes_SK

2Yr

@FrauManu This probably varies greatly from region to region. Many houses in our more rural old towns up to about 10,000 inhabitants are listed properties. Most of them are owned by the elderly, who gradually have to go into nursing homes. The cities therefore also like to support investors communally massive, so that tourism will not lose out. But as I said, point of view Central Germany. 😁

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Cro@Cro

2Yr

Bombe 💣👍🏾🚀

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Moritz@leveragegrinding

2Yr

What if you already own the property? Long in the family? Run down, only there building land where the house already stands? Of course purely theoretical.🌚

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2Yr

@leveragegrinding Do you want to renovate yourself ? ;) Then you can do that and also claim the renovation costs for tax purposes etc.. Then you are just the owner of the entire object.

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Robert@Robz

2Yr

@TradingMelone As an owner of a monument, is it allowed to use the tax advantage more often, e.g. by acquiring real estate later? I have heard that the tax advantage can only be used once.

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Nico Uhlig@RealMichaelScott

2Yr

@Robz no once 12 years after refurbishment 👍

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2Yr

Nice post on a topic where I have never dealt with. @ccf

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SGP@Koenigmidas

2Yr

@ccf

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Investpanda@Lehman_Brothers12

2Yr

@ccf

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Andi 🌊.@Itsnotjustmoney

2Yr

In principle, it is also a capital investment. My father bought houses and renovated them - not only but also - with a lot of his own work, which were located nearby. This one, for example, is right next to my parents' house. The purpose was to provide for old age through rental income, which ultimately worked. But: he loved it all. Remodeling, renting, dealing with people. Very different from my siblings and me. But that's just the way it is. Every Jeck is different. your comment also makes me realize that there is a difference between taking care of it yourself and letting someone take care of it 😉 .

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2Yr

Nice article, but as usual a milkmaid calculation 😅 because not everyone can make such a negative cash flow 12 years just like that 😅 even if you "save taxes". You will not compensate the negative cash flow with it. For the asset diversification of rich a super medium, but for the standard real estate owner not necessarily advisable.

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2Yr

@DerSteuerberater It all depends on the tax rate. As a rule, you have to be able to bear the burden yourself until you receive the certificate of historic preservation. After that, a large part should always be able to be repaid from the tax refund from last year. The calculation is rather conservative negative calculated and is from a current example with us.

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2Yr

@TradingMelone agree with you that it is possible, just would not claim that it is the standard for Dekmaöschutzobjekte and that the "beginners" should not undertake first. Because you wrote it a bit like in the annoying ads on IG (no offense). Have with it also zutun a lot when rich clients want to deversify (design consulting). Usually we then calculate the real estate also so through and only in a small part of the cases it is a positive end value 😅

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2Yr

@DerSteuerberater like instagram to sound was certainly not my intention. Is also anything but the standard on my.profile 😅 Find that really unusual. We also work with many tax advisors and asset management / family offices and i.d.R. that always pays off pretty well with our customers.

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2Yr

@TradingMelone probably work a lot with "old rich", or Instutitionen together, at the Rechnet it wich with us also always. Work but like in the design, which is why I have many "young rich". These have quasi just the millionaire status and take over so projects from the value and the Chashflows gladly 😅 all slightly crazy, you can also tell no one what I get for inquiries on the phone 😂 But with those the Chashflow is simply not stable enough or large enough to survive the first few years that stable without restrictions in their lifestyles 🤷🏼 therefore we advise with dennen of it in the conversation mostly from

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2Yr

@DerSteuerberater 😅 it goes I think with us it is a colorful mixture. Do you also offer the objects or do they come to you with objects ?

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Lucrash@KapriolenCapital

2Yr

Very interesting, but the 1v1 in CS has yet to happen 🥱

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Hans guck in die Luft@HanslmGlueck

2Yr

@KapriolenCapital Stiiiimmt😂

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2Yr

The winner then gets a nice monument property, right?

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2Yr

Yes, that's true. Ne are only tax consultants so they come with the properties you get offered. There is usually a redevelopment factor of 50% because the Bruchbude alone are so overpriced with us. Rhein-Main-Metropole halt 😅

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2Yr

@DerSteuerberater Okay if that ever change you can come to me with pleasure. Maybe we come together :) So we have as far as I know never had a below 65%. I.d.R. always pretty much exactly 70-75%. Especially if the objects were not used for residential purposes before. 50% I do not know at all. Crass. We are mainly active in bawü and Dresden.

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2Yr

@TradingMelone like maybe in the future, but are a design shop, succession and startup consulting. The few who have money for something like this will soon retire and there is rather handover the topic than real estate 🙈

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2Yr

@DerSteuerberater but sounds interesting :) startup consulting maybe i will come back to you sometime.

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Epi@Epi

2Yr

Thanks for the suggestion! How does it look straight actually with the heating law straight? The need for renovation of old houses should then again significantly increase. The paragraphs for old houses should also just rush down.

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

2Yr

@Epi I had already answered someone before. Since the objects are at the end neubaustandart there will be no problem. It is just not an efficient house like now a KfW 40 NH new building. However, still energy efficient.

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2Yr

Very exciting contribution. I guess that personal contributions are lost for tax purposes as always?

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

2Yr

@devnerd_daddy Own work ? If you renovate it yourself ?

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2Yr

@TradingMelone Yes, exactly. Specifically, my father is a craftsman and has already renovated several listed properties. Until now, we have always taken advantage of the favorable KfW conditions and government grants, but hey, less taxes is also interesting. But presumably it will be difficult to prove how much has been put in, correct? And can you at least deduct material?

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