3Yr·

Moin.

𝗧𝗲𝘀𝗹𝗮

If you are looking for a very normal analysis or are not fundamentally familiar with Tesla, look at Youtube videos or something as an introduction, might be useful. Definitely some analysis here too if you click on Tesla and then look through the posts below.


Oh well, one more thing, although I don't usually write something like this beforehand: I try to leave my "opinion on Tesla" out of the following.

If I can't leave it out, I'll write it in [ ]. I want to make money with the movements of the stock and therefore try to understand the valuation. If you see it differently due to details, I am happy about a comment.

Arguments worthy of a comment are defined by content, therefore do NOT count as such: "Shorten has never worked before" or "there was a human in a robot costume on stage, therefore Tesla should be at 100000000". I am seriously trying to define a meaningful valuation. <3


I. Calculate fair valuation based on current numbers.

II. variations of results

III. eeeeeeloon (imagine the pitch of Carmen Geiss when she calls Rooobert)

IV. the fking future

V. Conclusion





I) Let's goooo, 𝗭𝗮𝗵𝗹𝗲𝗻


DISCLAIMER

As you may know, the Graham formula can only very roughly determine a stock price. So that alone is not a reason to buy or sell. However, I'll just do some math for fun.


EPS* (8.5+2*CAGR)

(EPS is earnings per share from Q1 to Q4 /

CAGR is basically the targeted growth the next 10 years /

Y (to be added later) is the AAA corporate bond level *see sources for further explanation*).


1st adjustment for interest rate level:

EPS* (8.5+2*CAGR)* 4.4/Y


2. i trust Tesla to grow 40% for the next 10 years, which implies that some secondary revenue sources have to become more relevant (solar, storage) or Tesla will continue to outperform the competition for a whole decade.

EPS* (8.5+2*40)*4.4/Y


-> 4,71* (8.5+ 2*40)*4,4/2.53

3. now the sold CO2 certificates are still disturbing, these are no co-growing sources of income (sink also, see source 1, page 4, column 2). Generously, this still leaves an EPS of 4.5 (provisionally estimated revenue share of certificates is only 4%), but so much time must be🧐


4,5* (8,5+ 2*40) * 4,4/2.53

= 692.60<security:



II):> 𝗘𝗿𝗴𝗲𝗯𝗻𝗶𝘀𝘃𝗮𝗿𝗶𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗲𝗻

Variation 1)

There is criticism of the formula, especially for the factor of 2. For values that are particularly dependent on growth, we do not multiply by 2, which would be quite high. Other formulas use *0.6 or at most *1.

4.5* (8.5+1*40)* 4.4/2.53 = 379.56<security:


Variation:> 2)

Then, of course, you could take Tesla's own targeted growth value (50%) without evaluating it and just rely on Musk's word [which has worked totally well in the past, especially in terms of time-related results *winksmiley*]

4.72* (8.5+1*50)* 4.4/2.53 = 480.21<security:


WICHTIG:> to really be placed in this price range, growth must be 40-50% for 10 YEARS. Should Tesla achieve other growth, here corrections with the optimistic other numbers based on the first result:


At 35% growth: 614.35<security:

Bei:> 30% growth: 536.08<security:

Bei:> 55% growth: 927.39<security:

Bei:> 60% growth: 1005.65<security:


Also:> in case anyone hasn't kept up to here:

Current price: 1080<security:

Fairer:> Price value at 60% growth, every year, the next 10 years (so basically beat every forecast, in at least every 2nd quarter): $1005



III) 𝗗𝗲𝗿 𝗞𝗻𝗮𝗰𝗸𝗽𝘂𝗻𝗸𝘁

It is possible that this growth will be met, just probably not. We are talking about the company of one of the most famous and richest people in the world, who increases company values by mentioning him in a tweet.


Fortunately, as time goes by, his word becomes more irrelevant, numbers become more important. So far, they're getting better and better; it's hard to argue against Tesla's success in what used to be a hushed industry.

Except... lately, many growth stocks have suffered. Tesla hardly.

Tesla wants to be one of them in the future. The lead in autonomous driving is becoming more meager faster than it is growing, and the traditional car manufacturers are investing billions in digitization.


(And yes, there are more Tesla vehicles with Fast Autopilot, but mainly in the U.S., because there are not as lengthy rules for testing procedures, etc. to find as here. VW is now working with an entire Greek island as a testing ground).


Not to mention any Chinese companies.

So what is left for Tesla? The reputation of the pioneer, which Tesla rightly received at that time. The brand name, VISIONS.

Solar tiles (at the moment still price-performance-technically not special)

Tesla Robot (there are companies that are much more advanced in this area).

Oh and what is actually with the Roadster, when should it come? 2020?

These are only examples of visions, which must actually come in part if the growth of the share is to be maintained, because:



IV) 𝗹𝗮 𝗳𝘂𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲

I will be brief for the future.

Forecast for Germany by 2030 is 15 million EVs.

[Many experts say that we will not reach them so quickly (!), but I have already started to follow above in doubt pro Tesla. So I'll pull this through now, so we'll assume that 15 million EVs by 2030 fits].

That means Tesla's 50% growth can only come about if -as the market grows- they lose virtually no market share.

Means that even though everyone is talking about "catching up" at the moment, the other companies are just now coming out with the latest models to really compete, and Tesla's older models are already barely being bought because they have been pushed out of the market, Tesla is forecasting that they will at least maintain their currently very good market position.

🤞



V) 𝗙𝗮𝘇𝗶𝘁 and opinion.

Some experts don't even think the overall EV market is growing as some others hope it will, the trend is more towards truly green transportation (or electricity) and that takes time (infrastructure, even for dirty electricity and 15 million EVs is not enough). This already makes the growth forecast a problem.

Then I don't think solar tiles or anything else off the car (+accessories) will catch on in the mass market in large numbers.

Price/performance comparisons are a terrific disaster and as we see with Model S and X, they still play a role here.

Whether Tesla can maintain its market share also depends a lot on Musk's commercial skills. I can't judge, he prefers to speak of himself as a scientist and prefers this.


Meaning:

We currently have a share price value that has more than 50% growth more than fed in over 10 years.

Should anything happen beyond that that has a negative impact on other companies, the valuation will correct immensely directly.

And if the growth for a year is missed at some point, you can see from the variations in 2) what would be understandable relapses.



I shorten from just before ATH, but not in the long term.

[Update: https://www.tradingview.com/x/AGrTm4Ue/]


Stonks nix rational


Oh well, I recommend the first source.








𝗤𝘂𝗲𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗻:

https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/TWPKBV_TSLA_Q3_2021_Quarterly_Update_SI1AKE.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22TSLA-Q3-2021-Quarterly-Update.pdf%22


https://www.gevestor.de/finanzwissen/oekonomie/betriebswirtschaft/us-gaap-und-non-gaap-was-anleger-wissen-sollten-770470.html

https://ir.tesla.com/#tab-quarterly-disclosure

https://ir.tesla.com/sec-filings#tab-none&groups=annualquarterlyreports_currentreports&items_per_page=12&list_id=tcl-list-1&page=0&years=2022

https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-q4-2021-vehicle-production-deliveries

https://diyinvestor.de/die-graham-formel-ein-einfaches-tool-zur-bewertung-von-wachstumsaktien/

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AAA

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-tsla-earnings-q3-2021.html

https://diyinvestor.de/cash-flows-gewinne-normalisieren/

https://www.nasdaq.com/de/market-activity/stocks/tsla/earnings

https://aktien-mit-strategie.de/eine-einfache-berechnung-des-inneren-wertes-nach-benjamin-graham/

https://www.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/maerkte/aktien/tesla-quartalszahlen-so-hoch-sind-umsatz-und-gewinn-von-tesla-in-q3/27212046.html?ticket=ST-15225769-I5BtufdU0gbQhycjS9Ya-cas01.example.org

https://www.mobiflip.de/shortnews/tesla-rekord-umsatz-co2-zertifikate/

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22471586/TSLA_Q1_2021_Update.pdf

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2021/11/29/will-regulatory-credits-continue-to-bolster-teslas-profits/?sh=4d241cb762d8

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/tesla-electric-vehicle-regulatory-credits-explained.html

https://about.bnef.com/electric-vehicle-outlook/

https://bnef.turtl.co/story/evo-2021/page/3?teaser=yes

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126 Comments

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Top Content @leveragegrinding! 💪🏻
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Text very long so Tesla long with 20x leverage? Will be made boss
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@SharkAce Tesla is therefore mach🥴
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@getquin boy the display by your name is so full
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@getquin make even little more detailed description about me
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@getquin yes just put pi in then no one can see new notifications except yours
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@getquin first squeal
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Really everything I think about Tesla stock summarized in a really very well researched post. 👍
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Best post I've ever seen on getquin... 👍 Great analysis you put a lot of effort and I also agree with your opinion 100%. Tesla will very likely not be able to keep the level
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@Stonksman1 uuuu thank you :)
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@Lorena Like your ... sense of humor
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@leveragegrinding I offer more.
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@Lorena have improved for you, satisfied?
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@leveragegrinding yes 🦍 uga uga
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@Lorena For such people I always write a tldr at the beginning, the best thing is, since they do not read the text you can write in there what you want.
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Finally a contribution where it is made clear that the "old" car manufacturers have long caught up again. I'm invested in Tesla myself, but it's stupid to believe that VW, Daimler etc. won't catch up quickly. Especially VW who could simply free up billions for research.
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@Der_Dividenden_Monteur I also see it that way. I think that VW is massively undervalued in relation to Tesla and will soon be the market leader again. Just hope that Dies does not focus too much on electric (battery), I personally believe in the long term still in hydrogen as fuel.
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Where I see the mistake: In the future, the big money will be earned with software in the car. The car itself is degrading into a plastic box; it's more like a smartphone. Sure, that's still a great source of income. But the big money is in apps, or if we think more futuristically: In ideas like robo-taxis. Tesla is way ahead of its competition. That's what experts like Sandy Munro say, and even VW admits it. That's why today's profit plays 0.0 role and is completely negligible. In the long run, it should suddenly explode and the bears will desperately try to explain where it came from. My goal: 10 trillion. Stock market value by 2030 around. The upper calculation will turn out to be baloney because of the current lower EPS. In the short term, however, it will be a rough ride in either direction, giving the bears hope here and there. The stock can easily dip below $1,000 - I hope so. Then I'll buy up. Just my opinion, not investment advice.
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@NikNavarskij under the 1000UsD 😂😂 yes moin. you know what bothers me? Your goal. Taken out of the air. The Chinese are just as far along with the software and the car won't become a plastic can so quickly. Your thesis about the robot cab is the same as mine about self-driving cars. Daimler is just as far along. Profit never plays 0.0 role, otherwise you buy based on words that come out of Musk's mouth. Wow.
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@leveragegrinding The whole numbers game is completely out of the air and makes no sense. They make the most sense for value stocks, according to Buffett, but not for growth stocks, if you ignore the complete future potential. Such stocks almost NEVER trade at their fair level. They are either grossly overvalued or undervalued. As long as Tesla holds future potential, the overvaluation should continue. Acha, the Chinese are just as far along. I prefer to stick with industry experts like Munro. He predicts that Tesla will be the big winner, with the Chinese cleaning up the field behind it. Speaking of profits: Tesla's net profit is expected to be around $5-6 billion in 2021. GM is supposed to have 8.6 billion and VW around 15 billion. Tesla has DEUTHLY less car sales than VW, I think you agree. VW and Co. will face very high costs in the future. Just the conversion of their factories, the cannibalization of their old burners, etc. I see two risks with Tesla and those are 1. US politics (Tesla is dependent on China) and 2. general stock market crash. Just my opinion, not investment advice.
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@NikNavarskij the numbers games are EXTRA numbers games for growth shares. the opinion on the Chinese manufacturers I have not made up, expert opinions there are 2erlei, but that's not the point, Tesla can have the best software. Tesla's profit is high because EVs have ne better profit margin, the comparison limp at each end. Also, other comparisons between VW and Tesla I still think are quite moronic, I deliberately did not use this "worth as much as all the old car manufacturers". And also @Gregory VW is already counting the cost of change and I think that the software situation therefore similarly quickly turns in favor of the other market participants as it has already happened with independent driving and price performance. In principle, I also see that Tesla currently has the nose in front, but price potential yet not. I never said the company is not the market leader.
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@leveragegrinding Yup, but I see it differently. We have a horsepower ratio of 26 at Tesla. That's a lot at first glance, but it will be quickly pulverized in a few years by the high growth. Since this high growth should continue for a VERY long time, I expect overvaluation for a VERY long time. We have a highly volatile stock here. With well-timed shorts you can make money, but I stick to the long-term enormous price potential. The stock market will show who was right. Thanks for the polite discussion and not this stupid "Tesla is just a car maker" argument.
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@NikNavarskij the thanks goes directly back :) In principle, our opinions are not so far apart, if the growth is kept so the overvaluation is not ended so quickly. If not, already. What of it now occurs, is then unfortunately not set in stone. I don't think they'll make it, you do. ✌
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Thanks here probably still have isolated people idea what they are talking about, had already given up hope 👍🏻
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And one more thing as a remark: What is often forgotten. The most important market for growth in Asia has its own laws, and Tesla will ultimately have its work cut out for it. Even Apple is not even close to being the best-selling cell phone there, but clearly domestic products. As a result, I believe that Nio, Xpeng or whoever else will take the big cake there.
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@Itsgoodtobebad they will need for 50% growth
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@leveragegrinding definitively
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So do I understand correctly all in short on Tesla got it xd
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I assume that a company like Tesler will not only manufacture cars in the future.
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@SquirtGame and in future Christmas trees will certainly also be available in different colors
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I once replied to you in a separate post, which somehow became a very long text ;-) and therefore a separate post.
TLDR is bullish due to various factors (which cannot be measured financially at the moment).
Therefore, in my opinion, your formula doesn't work either, we will probably see clearly in a year's time.
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@pjzzz I've just skimmed through it to anticipate... As mentioned above, I'm concerned with the current status of the share. It may certainly look different in 2 years with different figures, but I don't think there's that much patience with such a valuation.
But as I said, more details tomorrow🚀
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@BigTom very interesting contribution.
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Tesla, Microsoft, Apple, Nvidia and Alphabet account for more than 50% of the performance of the Nasdaq. These are the super bulls hanging in front of the cart. I'm not shorting anything!
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👍 great Analysis!
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respect for the effort
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Really decent! But short from the ATH level? You mean the price had its ATH on January 4th and will never reach that level again?
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Oh dear... there's a lot wrong with that. If you enter sensible values, you even get something sensible:
10*(8.5+1.5*50)*4.4/2.53= 1452$ can be left as it is, but then you'd better be bullish 🐂 ;)
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@AKTIENMITKOPF Interesting Analysis. 🤔
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Congratulations!
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First of all, a general comment on shorting a stock like Tesla in the short or long term:
Let me put it this way, Tesla consistently beats analysts' expectations (and often enough also those of the market, sometimes even those of Tesla bulls) virtually every quarter with few exceptions.
If we assume that the current price roughly reflects what analysts are expecting (and that's not 15 million vehicles, by the way) and Tesla consistently delivers better, then the share price should logically continue to rise because even more hopes for the future are being priced in.
For now, it doesn't matter whether Tesla is overvalued or cannot maintain growth and margins in the long term, because for the share price to fall, the market would have to somehow process and price in information in this direction.
I'm not saying that this won't happen in the next few years, 50% growth is much easier with 1M vehicles and virtually unlimited demand than from 5M when demand is perhaps no longer so immense, but if there is no new information and Tesla is heading for a new ATH, then there is nothing to prevent the market from pushing the price up a little further, and even if Tesla is excessively overvalued, this will only help you to short when the market as a whole realizes this. That's why I would actually be very careful about shorting a stock like Tesla, which is experiencing such immense growth and has such a strong underlying intact upward trend. Why short an emotional share that often makes strong irrational movements at any price when there are so many other good opportunities to make money much more easily and safely.
Because even if the 15 million or even just 10 million vehicles are too high, Tesla will almost certainly show far too much growth for at least the next 12 months for the market to price in a possible failure to meet the ambitious targets. And as I said, if the market isn't pricing anything in, then you may be right, but you won't make any money.

Now to all the math games at Tesla.
1. For example, I don't quite understand how the bond level is relevant for Tesla, as Tesla generates significantly more positive cash flow than it needs. Shanghai alone has enough gross profit per quarter to completely finance the costs of Giga Shanghai itself. The fact that Tesla is still so poorly rated is somehow a bad joke, but that's why it doesn't make much sense to include something like that in a calculation.
Instead of complicated calculations, only half of which you actually understand, I prefer to take a simple approach.
How much profit would Tesla have to generate to justify a valuation of 1000$? Let's assume that the company has seen its strongest growth, but is still growing relatively solidly with the EV market as a whole, so let's say a multiplier for EPS of 20x, which is already very low for a growth company, it is quite far from the P/E of Amazon, for example, and well below the Nasdaq average.
Consequently, we would need an EPS of 1000/20 to justify the price of 1000$ or an EPS of just under 50$.
We have recently seen at Tesla that the operating margins have moved very strongly towards the gross margins with increasing sales, most recently we were at 14.6%, in Q4 the margins should be even better, as 1. more high margin cars (Model S+X delivered again, more Model Y), 2. Shanghai has a higher share of total sales + more Model Y share in Shanghai (Shanghai has demonstrably significantly better margins and also quality than Fremont).
The new factories in Austin and Berlin will also have significantly better margins than Fremont. But let's stay conservative in total and assume operating margins of ~20%, which would be achievable if Tesla has a comparable change in sales, profit and operating expenses as from Q2 to Q3, so it is almost a value that is currently achieved, but we assume it for much later in the future, when Tesla has scaled its production significantly more.
50$ EPS with almost 1 billion outstanding shares would be ~50 billion in operating profits.
At 20% margins, assuming an average vehicle price of ~$50,000, Tesla would generate $10,000 in operating profit per vehicle. That would be the case with 5 million vehicles per year. By the way, if you assume a P/E multiplier of 30 or even 40 for a company that is still growing immensely, then you would need 3.3M or 2.5M vehicles with the corresponding margins.
As I said, we assume that Tesla can (bullish assumption) increase sales and profits comparable to Q2 to Q3, but on the other hand, the assumption remains that Tesla will not be able to increase margins further towards its (incidentally also quite continuously increasing) gross margins despite new optimized factories even if they would then run at full capacity.
I know the math is a bit simpler and may sound more obtuse than your calculation, but it makes a lot more sense to me.
In addition, the model makes it very easy to calculate how much the share should be worth if, for example, Tesla achieves 25% operating margins, or perhaps should remain at its 14.6% from Q4.
The biggest uncertainty here is actually what P/E ratio Tesla will trade at in the future.
Is it more like Amazon, which has had a P/E ratio of 50+ for years? Or will it be more like Apple, which has recently been between 25 and 30, or perhaps even lower? In my opinion, however, growth would have to almost stagnate towards 10-15% per year for this to happen and I honestly don't see that happening any time soon.
I can't say whether Tesla now has a significant upside because they would first have to create these 5M vehicles with a P/E of 20. But what I can say is that Tesla will almost certainly produce and deliver 1.7-1.8M vehicles this year, and if the price doesn't change, they may be at a 50 PE ratio by 2023.
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