2Yr·

The rich protect their assets.

But how?

And when are you so "rich" that you should "protect" your assets - and from whom?


This question has been on my mind from time to time over the last few days. So I thought I'd share my research (which doesn't have to be completely error-free) with you and link the article to the question: does anyone here know a lot about this - beyond the "dangerous half-knowledge"? If so, I would be happy and grateful if any misrepresentations could be commented on quickly...


First of all: How did I come up with the idea of dealing with this topic?


Together with my brother, I took a closer look at an apartment building and calculated it - as an investment property to rent out.

We quickly came up with the question of how to divide and organize the property in a sensible way so that "the situation" would be clear in the event of a dispute. We came up with the idea that a GbR or GmbH could be a possibility.

Why? Because then the GmbH owns the property; a [legal] person in the land register and we, as two shareholders, can divide the parts of the company easily between us, without a declaration of division of the property, without various personal entries in the land register, etc.

In addition, as the name suggests, a GmbH has limited liability.


In the end, nothing came of the property, but the thought continued to occupy me - how can assets be well managed, divided, partially sold or inherited? How do "the rich" do it?


"The rich" protect their assets through companies, for example.


While I, as a normal person who goes to work and pays taxes, can in the worst case get a top tax rate of 42%, companies are generally taxed at a much lower rate.


The "corporate network" - holding company and GmbH


First a very rough summary, more details later:

We set up a holding company (i.e. a company whose only task is to hold shares in other companies).


We also set up an asset-managing GmbH that is not commercially active and therefore only pays 15% corporation tax - the other 15% trade tax is not payable as there is no commercial activity.


The GmbH now buys a property and rents it out. After deducting all costs such as interest and maintenance expenses, a profit remains. This profit would be taxed at the personal tax rate of up to 42% for a private individual.

In an asset-managing GmbH, however, only 15% corporation tax is payable.

The lower tax burden of the GmbH means that new cash assets can be built up more quickly and therefore a new property, shares or company shares can be purchased more quickly.


This example already shows that a positive effect arises above all if the asset is held for a long period and the income is retained.


Now we have the "problem" that the GmbH also has certain liability risks. These cannot be completely eliminated. But: As a shareholder of a GmbH, I can distribute profits to myself (as a private individual). However, these are subject to capital gains tax of 25%. So it makes relatively little sense to first pay 15% corporation tax and then 25% for capital gains?


Yes and no: because the "network" is not intended for regular payments to private individuals.


Now our holding company comes into play.

Instead of a private partner, we now use the holding company as a partner (shareholder) of the GmbH. It is therefore a company that owns a company.

If the holding company holds at least 15 % of the shares in the GmbH, 95 % of the profit distributions from the GmbH to the holding company are not taxed. Only 5% is subject to corporation tax and trade tax - effectively a total tax burden of 1.5% arises on the transfer to the holding company.


But why the transfer from the GmbH to the holding company?

Primarily to eliminate the last liability risks. Has a GmbH distributed profits (let's say for 20 years, distributions every year) and then something goes "wrong", the GmbH gets into difficulties and has to file for insolvency? In that case, the accumulated assets are no longer part of the GmbH's assets, but have been put "in safekeeping" for just 1.5% tax. And this happens years in advance. If the GmbH itself had the money "on the high edge", it would immediately be part of the insolvency estate.


Other GmbHs with participation by the holding company


Of course, the whole thing can be further expanded with additional companies - e.g. a GmbH that is responsible for "brokering" the properties (i.e. is commercially active), a GmbH that handles particularly risky parts such as the construction or renovation of a property, etc.


Now the whole thing was very real estate-heavy. What about shares?


In most cases, investing in shares through a holding company (formally: acquisition of company shares by the holding company) is only worthwhile for growth stocks, as only the capital gains are tax-free.

Since, as described above, tax relief on dividends also depends on the holding company holding at least 15% of the company, it is rather unlikely for us normal people to hold 15% of a listed company. If this were the case, dividends would also have these tax advantages. However, if we hold less than 15% of the company, 15% trade tax and 15% corporation tax would apply, which would be more than the capital gains tax.


@DonkeyInvestor This is how you get your money,

After you count your car as a company car, of course :).

The keyword is "partial income method" - that would be a whole new, complete topic post. But in essence it means that under certain circumstances you only have to pay tax on 60% of the investment income from the holding company if you withdraw it privately. Maybe there will be an article on this :). Otherwise, the subsidiary of our permanent survey winner can certainly provide information


As you can see, the topic is complex. Perhaps there is a tax consultant among us with specialist knowledge of corporate tax law who can correct any errors in the presentation.

In all the examples I have now left out solidarity tax/church tax - just for your information :)


You can find different information on the net as to when such a network can be worthwhile (or initially only a VV GmbH) - approx. 100,000 net assets that generate income is probably the lowest limit. So not sooooo much - how was it: the first 100,000 are the hardest.


Good night! #learn

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30 Comments

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And how does the money get from the holding company to me? Mega exciting insights with a topic off the mainstream. Love it. @ccf
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@DonkeyInvestor I'll edit...
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@LUD good luck. When you edit posts here anything can happen 😅
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@DonkeyInvestor In the case of private withdrawals from a GmbH (regardless of whether it is a holding company or not), you are always liable for 25%.
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@DonkeyInvestor in any case, everything has moved without my intervention:)
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@mrvalue Häschtäg partial income procedure, but that is probably more worthwhile as a pensioner. I think these constructs serve to increase assets over generations and less to withdraw it in a timely manner. So in any case, usually the comments of tax advisors that you can find on the net ...
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2Yr
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@FinanzQuelle oh very good. Thanks for the tip!
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@DonkeyInvestor or check out InvestmentPunk on Instagram, he also has a free webinar on this.
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@LukeH I unfortunately do not use services that end in gram
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@DonkeyInvestor also not wrong 😀
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V+V GmbH in particular is perfectly suited for building up a nice real estate portfolio. The emphasis is on the portfolio, otherwise the beautiful asset management character is quickly gone. In view of the GmbH structure, the running costs of the GmbH must not be ignored. For each GmbH, annual costs are incurred for the ongoing accounting and the annual financial statements. For us, depending on the complexity and mass of accounting material, these are between 5k and 8k p.a.! But it can also quickly run into the 5-digit range. But thank you for the exciting impulse!
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@mrvalue the article also sounds too positive to me. virtually no disadvantages were mentioned.
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Which are?
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Can I as an employee so easily found a holding GmbH whatever without jeopardizing my current employment?
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@Koenigmidas my layman's knowledge says: of course! That doesn't mean that you work in it as a manager. But you can own companies. Shares in companies that you own through shares do not endanger your job. At most your bank balance :)
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@Koenigmidas Since every GmbH needs a managing director, there may be problems with the employment contract. Since if you do not want to hire someone else or have family members who want to be liable for it, it is always you as a shareholder.
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Btw: a holding company has absolutely nothing to do with active asset protection. Holdings are good for organizing, but once your name is in there as the owner, that's it for protection. I'll elaborate later. On the way
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Very cool post, the topic interests me for a long time...finally I find the whole thing explained in simple terms....Respect ;)
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@schumachermichael Thank you for the feedback. As you can see from the comments, it is of course not all-encompassing and not every detail has been clarified. I am also only freshly to deal with it. In this respect, the article reflects my current state of knowledge. To reduce complexity and to formulate things simply helps me to understand it better;)
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The illustration is very simplified. Not wrong, but it does not show why the so-called rich do that. Real estate is very rarely held in a corporation. The reason is the lack of speculation tax to use privately. There are better constructs here. Approx. 30% of my fortune consists of real estates and make the tax structuring and protection differently. The simplification of the representation is to be emphasized in particular related to the flow of money. The money, especially from the own companies in which one holds more than 15% or 10% of the shares, is taxed in the end only with 1.4%. So you save about 24% and this difference is reinvested. With all kinds of further optimizations, e.g. investing in individual shares, possibly with an atypical silent partnership in the limited liability company that holds the shares. Price gains on individual shares are also only taxed at 1.4% at the level of the corporation. Depending on the design, one gets an allowance on the trade tax of about 25k€. Unfortunately, the real designs of the so-called rich are not very well understood and one is content with the reference to a Vorschalt-GmbH or VV-GmbH. That is OK, but in the camp of the amateurs settled (not on the author @LUD referred).
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@Ody13 Thank you for your addition. And that also clearly shows that "we" as amateurs should have an idea how such a construct can be designed, but when it comes to the implementation, we should not imagine that we can build it ourselves, but have to take experts on board! In this respect, I am glad about this addition because it shows again "if the world were so simple, everyone would already do it that way". In this respect. See it as impulse and by no means as guideline, how the fortune and tax optimization functions!
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Very clever. Thanks for the execution.
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Sounds understandable. Thanks for the contribution 😀
Is with everything too positively formulated. As if no costs or disadvantages arise from a GmbH.
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@Micky_Maus It's easy to complain, of course. It would be nice if you would not just say that the disadvantages are not named enough, but explain some of them here so that the readers have the opportunity to inform themselves in detail.
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@LUD The administrative costs such as basic costs such as annual accounts, if necessary tax advice, formation costs (registration in the commercial register and notary costs). In addition, business accounts at a bank are usually subject to charges compared to private individuals who can keep an account free of charge.
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@Micky_Maus Thanks for the additions! 👍
@LUD no cause. So clearly several GmbHs have definite advantages, but only from a certain fortune.
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