Negroni · 2024-09-20T15:03:09.493881Z

Stocked up on the Holy Amumbo again yesterday. Controversial ETF for long-term investment, but a little risk is a must 😊

4Mes

I also find it very good "Time in the market beats timing the market", I personally never find the optimal time, but the last 10 years clearly speak in favor of the ETF with an average of 29% per year

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Maximilian@Max095

1Mes

@Engartner Are you invested?

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Engartner@Engartner

1Mes

@Max095 I am personally invested and invested 15k in the Amundi MSCI US Leveraged for the birth of my son in 2018 as he has a very long investment horizon. In my opinion, time is an essential tool to minimize risk.

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Maximilian@Max095

1Mes

@Engartner Thanks for your feedback, it's great that you're investing for your son 😊Do you think 20 years is a long enough period for a leveraged ETF?

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Engartner@Engartner

1Mes

I believe that Warren Buffett is fundamentally right with his thesis "Never bet against America", despite all the geopolitical challenges and a potential sovereign debt crisis. The effect of compound interest is enormous in the long term. The S&P 500 has generated an average annualized return of 10.8% since 1968. As Warren Buffett once said, if he had invested 10,000 dollars in the S&P 500 on March 11, 1942 and done nothing else, it would be 51 million today. As to your question of whether you should use leverage, I honestly don't know. It's probably a question of personal risk perception. Looking back, the Amundi MSCI US Leveraged has generated a return of 6.100% since its launch in 2009. Whether it will be similar over the next 15 years, to be honest, I don't know.

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Svenska1232@Svenska123

2Mes

I am heavily invested in the ETF with a stop loss at 8%.

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D.S.@Cato_Bamboo

2Mes

Hello everyone, I need some help understanding.....I'm quite new and don't yet understand where the greater "risk" comes from. Do you also run it with a savings plan, or only 1x purchases and then constantly under observation? Or with a "stop" and automatic sale? Or how? Actually, I've only read about ETFs and seen the very good returns.....

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Chandra@Chandra

2Mes

@Cato_Bamboo The double leverage means that if the MSCI USA makes +2% in one day, this ETF makes +4%. At -3% then -6%. In a bear market, this ETF consequently falls more sharply and takes longer to return to its old high. It therefore has a higher risk, but also higher chances of greater returns in a bull market.

Incidentally, I invest in it regularly, unlike $QQQ3, where I only bought once and see how things develop.

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D.S.@Cato_Bamboo

2Mes

@Chandra Thanks for the great clarification. But then your variant is associated with even more risk, or just opportunities.....?

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Chandra@Chandra

2Mes

@Cato_Bamboo Everyone has a different perception of risk. Some people buy a share, sell it in a panic at -5% and never touch "the devil's stuff" again.
I started on the stock market at the beginning of 2022 and my portfolio was only in the red for 1.5 years. I'm more hardened than that.

The MSCI USA contains over 500 stocks, only from the USA, but they have performed well historically and I find a double leverage tolerable, so I have it in my savings plan.
The $QQQ3 leverages the Nasdaq 100 (i.e. only 100 stocks) threefold. In the dot-com bubble, the ETF would have meant a total loss if it had already existed. It has performed very well over the last 10 years because the Nasdaq has done so well. I am quite prepared to put in €1000 and see where it is in 10 years' time. 1000€ less won't make me poor (unlike perhaps the loss of a savings plan sum over many years), but €100,000 would already be a noticeable positive.

However, if I have the feeling that the wind is changing in the market, then I have no problem selling the ETFs again. They only make up part of my portfolio, the majority is in $VWRL.

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Maximilian@Max095

1Mes

@Chandra It would also be interesting to buy/rebuy such ETFs in a crash, wouldn't it?

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Chandra@Chandra

1Mes

@Max095 In itself, yes, the problem is that you don't know how deep the crash will go and if it falls another 20%, for example, then your ETF will fall 20%*leverage, i.e. another 60% at $QQQ3. You can look at the max chart at $QQQ3 (Nasdaq 100 x3) to see how long it took to recover from the bear market in 2022 and then compare this with $LQQ (Nasdaq 100 x2) and $EQQQ (Nasdaq 1x).

Good opportunities, high risk.

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Maximilian@Max095

1Mes

@Chandra You're right, of course. Or perhaps enter via a savings plan in case the market falls more sharply.

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Chandra@Chandra

1Mes

@Max095 It depends on the index and leverage. For example, I have a permanent savings plan on $CL2, as it "only" has 2x leverage and the index is the MSCI USA, which is itself already quite highly diversified. As a result, it didn't fall that much in 2022.

But in general, anything with leverage is only an admixture in my portfolio. (Currently approx. 15%)

How much does the market have to fall for you to enter $QQQ3 with a savings plan?

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Maximilian@Max095

1Mes

@Chandra That sounds sensible. I would only bring the $CL2 into the depot anyway. 😊

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Tino@parlania

5Mes

Nur 2x ? 🤣

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Marre2410@Marre2410

3Mes

What would happen if the MSCI fell about 60% in a month, it would have to fall 120%, which means that it is no longer worth anything and trading is no longer possible... or how should I understand this?

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Deichhörnchen@deichhoernchen

3Mes

@Marre2410 Has that ever happened? Apart from that: the lever is reset daily. Hence the "Daily" in the name.

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Maximilian@Max095

5Mes

Il commento è stato cancellato

Negroni@Negroni

5Mes

@Max095 Who is telling us that we have now reached the highest phase for the next few years? Personally, I am still bullish until the end of the year.

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Maximilian@Max095

5Mes

@Negroni Okay. In the long term, the ETF should pay off anyway. ✌🏻😀

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