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Fatih Han P.
@FatihHan91
1Année·

Hi Dear GQ Community,



this is my first time writing here and I would like to hear your opinions on savings plans for my son.


I gratefully accept optimizations 😁


Since his birth in June 2017 I have opened a custody account for Him. There their ETF $n/a (+0,35 %) with 50€ saved.


Since September 2022 I have opened a children's account at Ginmon with a savings amount of 150€. Ginmon invests very diversified.


Since December 2022, another 150€ is saved in a children's deposit with Barmenia. These have a savings plan in $n/a (-0,66 %)
$WLD (+0,35 %)
$LYPS (+0,59 %)
$n/a (-0,55 %)
$n/a 30€ each.


My question:


Would it make more sense to open a children's account with a broker to manage the savings plans themselves? If YES which ETF's would you recommend for the savings rate of 350€?


Thank you in advance ☺️




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26 Commentaires
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Staatsmann@Staatsmann
1Année
With all the funds I ask myself: What is the goal behind it? Why just these funds? Personally, I would put the entire sum in a world index and done. No rebalancing necessary and the management fee is only a fraction. For example, $VWCE or $VWRL Alternatively, only the $IWDA. Everything else would be too complicated for me personally for their own child.
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Fatih Han P.@FatihHan91
1Année
@Staatsmann Why exactly these funds? I was "turned on" here and there. The goal is to save for my son. I have made the beginning, now I want to look to save sensibly. Is there a broker which offers Kinderdepot's? I find there unfortunately only Robo-Advisor, which as you know invest your money yourself.
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Staatsmann@Staatsmann
1Année
@FatihHan91 You won't get far with new brokers. Consorsbank or Comdirect have something like that, I think. Deutsche Bank possibly also. Then look at all the funds, how you can possibly get out of there. They cost a lot of money and every management and administration fee costs returns.
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Fatih Han P.@FatihHan91
1Année
@Staatsmann with the banks fall but then again extreme fees or? Yes I'm in it wants to cancel the DekaBank and Barmenia. How Ginmon invests (Robo-Adviso) I actually like so far...
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Staatsmann@Staatsmann
1Année
@FatihHan91 Savings plans, especially on ETF at "Junior Depots" are often free of charge. In the long term, however, they are cheaper than the fees for any funds.
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Fatih Han P.@FatihHan91
1Année
@Staatsmann Super thanks for the informative answer. I'll make me there times smarter 👍👍
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Kevin E.@KevinE
1Année
@FatihHan91 ING also offers junior custody accounts (with free ETF savings plans).
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Staatsmann@Staatsmann
1Année
@KevinC Good to know! Was not the case a few years ago. :)
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Markus@MarkusF
1Année
@Staatsmann It just depends, I guess.

If you create a strategy for yourself anyway (hopefully with more than €50/month :)), I don't think there's anything wrong with simply creating a mirror for the child.

Even if it is of course even less important for the child where it is invested (as long as it is sufficiently diversified)
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Staatsmann@Staatsmann
1Année
@MarkusF But the fact is that very few investors beat the index with their strategy, so why should I risk giving my child a worse return based on my idea of outperforming the index? :)

If you manage to beat the World Index continuously for 18 years:
Fire away! 🚀

Otherwise, please don't drag the child into your own arrogance.
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Markus@MarkusF
1Année
@Staatsmann
Well, 70% World, 30% EM would be a strategy
100% World is a strategy

...

Putting money into individual stocks CAN be a strategy - but especially with the horizon ~17 years decreasing (driver's license, studies, etc.) rather less recommendable.
Especially not with "other people's" money.
I also invest in individual stocks but no more than 20% - the rest is in ETFs (World/S&P500 + EM - not some fringe ETFs with 3 stocks...)

Why 17? Because you realistically need some of the money BEFORE you turn 18 if you want to drive a car on your 18th birthday.
I don't know of any driving school that still offers payment at the end.
I had to pay at least €1k in advance in 2009 (I also had to do mine in a town in the middle of nowhere where I was stationed - so it was quite expensive at €2,500 incl. 1* test).
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Krynt@Krynt
1Année
All in $IWDA
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Epi@Epi
1Année
Unfortunately, I can't see the funds and can't say anything about the costs. Therefore, just in general: When should the son get his hands on the money? In the first case, it is only about 12 years, i.e. a $VWCE would probably be the best compromise between return, security and simplicity. In the second case, one can also be more aggressive and possibly take a $NDAQ. Here, there are more opportunities for higher risk. Here there are more opportunities for higher risk. More ETFs are not needed, since each one is already well diversified.
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Fatih Han P.@FatihHan91
1Année
@Epi My son will be 6 in May. He should be able to access his money at the age of 18. Is there a broker that offers children's accounts? Unfortunately, I can only find robo-advisors that invest your money themselves.
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Epi@Epi
1Année
@FatihHan91 Can't you just open a custody account in your name at TR or SC and transfer it in 12 years? Otherwise, there's not quite enough time to invest aggressively. So $VWCE.
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Fatih Han P.@FatihHan91
1Année
@Epi I think that the transfer is such a tax gray area. Saving directly into a child's custody account has many more tax advantages. That's what I've been told 🤷‍♂️😁
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Epi@Epi
1Année
@FatihHan91 Okay, I'm not sure about that. But just put it in your name and give your son power of attorney at some point, that would work too, right?
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Fatih Han P.@FatihHan91
1Année
@Epi Would theoretically go 🤷‍♂️
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Epi@Epi
1Année
@FatihHan91 Then you can just go with an established neobroker. TR or SC. They are cheap and flexible.
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Licher@Teufelskerl
1Année
Neobroker does not yet offer a children's account. Just Google for it. There are a lot. I will open my children's accounts at ING.
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Epi@Epi
1Année
@Teufelskerl Then the question to you: What is the advantage of a child custody account over the 18+ power of attorney?
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Licher@Teufelskerl
1Année
@Epi Among other things, it minimizes the risk that you "gamble" with it, since you are only allowed to manage it until the child reaches the age of majority. In the event of financial problems, no third party can access it. In addition, children's custody accounts are usually free of charge or inexpensive and not unimportant could be the point that children from birth have their own annual allowance for investment income and income does not have to be, but can be important.
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Markus@MarkusF
1Année
@FatihHan91 Of course - after all, the child also has an income tax allowance AND a saver's allowance.

This means that the child can earn significantly more in tax-free returns than you could.
I don't know whether the child tax-free allowance is eliminated from a certain amount - but it's always more economical...
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Ironman@Ironman2022
1Année
It's great that you're thinking about this. I can only recommend that you keep a great distance from such complicated, ill-conceived and pointlessly expensive financial constructs. Why an active water fund, why a mining fund? The only ones who earn money are insurance companies and fund managers. A single All World ETF e.g. a $VWCE is completely sufficient in this case and the performance is in all probability much better in the long run! No investment advice.
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Fatih Han P.@FatihHan91
1Année
@Ironman2022 Yes, unfortunately, one becomes smarter only in hindsight. I have also noticed that my choices are far too expensive and in contrast to the costs bring far too little return. Is there a broker which offers Kinderdepot's? I find there unfortunately only Robo-Advisor, which, as you know, invest your money yourself.
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Ironman@Ironman2022
1Année
Good question, I have no experience myself. Possibly flatex...
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