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Denis S.
@Schneidi1985
11Mo·

Hi, I've been investing in funds since 2010 and have gambled a bit on the stock market from time to time, which always went well, except for this January when I took a dive into the toilet, well, that's part of it, I'd say. Since November 2023, I've been thinking that maybe I should stop gambling and build up something solid and long-term via a savings rate. (even though I hit the wall in January)


Now I have opened 2 brokers TR and Finanz.Zero

In TR (€ 238 per month) I wanted to save in individual shares and in FZ - ETF's (€ 225 per month) my funds continue to run in parallel with € 150 per month and then there is another € 200 per month on the call money account. Monthly investment of € 813


Now I've thought about the following and wanted to ask you for your opinion:

TR (admittedly it's a bit like gambling again :) )

$BAYN (-2,59 %) 12€ per week

$KO (-0,69 %) 12€ wö.

$AMZN (+1,21 %) 50€ monthly

$IFX (-0,9 %) 12€ weekly

$PYPL (-0,91 %) 12€ weekly


FZ

$XAIX (+1,27 %) 75€ monthly

$LYPS (+0,66 %) 50€ per month

$LYY7 (+0,57 %) 25€ per month

$BITC (-2,68 %) 50€ per month

$EXSH (-0,49 %) 25€ per month


DeKa

DekaFonds CF DAX $n/a perf. 18.59%

Deka-GlobalChampions CF $n/a perf. 32.78% (since 2018)


In addition, I am currently undecided whether I should liquidate the funds and rather invest in the ETFs because of the lower fees or leave the ETFs.


What do you think? Investment horizon, there is no concrete one, the €800 a month doesn't hurt me and I would only spend it on nonsense anyway.

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17 Commentaires
Blacki704@Blacki704
11Mo
I would definitely liquidate the Deka funds, the fees and running costs are far too high. As far as I know, deka also has a clause that a 15% return or (per year) higher can/must also be paid to deka 😬
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Denis S.@Schneidi1985
11Mo
@Blacki704 Yes, the costs are also too high for me, which is why I've already reduced the savings installments. The only problem is that I don't know how to invest the almost €15t. All at once in an ETF or simply a higher savings rate in one or more ETFs until the money is reinvested?
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Ironman@Ironman2022
11Mo
Deka funds 🗑📉🦵Far too high costs that simply cannot be justified!
Instead, e.g. $IWDA $SPPW $VWRL or similar.
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Denis S.@Schneidi1985
11Mo
@Ironman2022 Would you reinvest the money once or additionally via a savings plan?
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Ironman@Ironman2022
11Mo
I would sell the funds and immediately switch to a call money account with good interest rates or a TR clearing account with 4% interest. From there in a few larger tranches into well selected, favorable world ETF(s). I would choose the division into tranches because the prices are currently quite high. Otherwise I would invest everything at once.
Let the ETF savings plan run, of course.

No investment advice
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Denis S.@Schneidi1985
11Mo
@Ironman2022 Thank you for the tip, I'll make an appointment to have things liquidated after the dividend payment. Even if it is a nice return, the costs have been a thorn in my side the whole time
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Markus@financial_genius_20
10Mo
In contrast to most of the other comments, which always find funds stupid because they are "far too expensive", I would recommend continuing to hold Deka GlobalChampions. Why? I ran it against an MSCI World reference ETF according to various criteria that are relevant to me. And here is my result:
1-year price performance: Deka better (30% vs. 23%)
3-year performance: Deka better (34 to 30%)
5-year performance: Deka better (78 to 71%)
10-year performance: Deka better (157 vs. 139%)
Volatility in all time ranges (1/3/5/10 years) the same (+-0.5% difference)
Sharpe ratio in all time ranges: Deka better
Trend stability: Deka better
Average drawdown: MSCI minimally better
If the performance is better across all time frames, I am happy to pay internal fund costs for capable employees. In any case, I prefer this to some student programmer who programs it exactly once and otherwise only incurs mini costs for the server, security, electricity and license fees to the index inventors. Even the 0.x% ETF costs are far too expensive for that.
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Denis S.@Schneidi1985
10Mo
@financial_genius_20 I also had this view, unfortunately the costs completely eat up these higher returns ... The Global has costs of purchase costs: 3.75%, TER 1.46% and transaction 0.11 %

If I run this against the performance with a savings rate of €150/mth, I get the following with your value development values:

1year: 30% vs. 23%
Deka: 1,800€, growth: 309.33, cost 86.51€ ... Final assets: €2,022.82
ETF: €1,800, growth: €240.79, costs €1.35 ... Final assets: € 2,039.45

3years: 34% vs. 30%
Deka: €5,400, growth: €1021.02, costs €358.1 ... Final assets: €6,062.92
ETF: €5,400, growth: €919.5, costs €12.14 ... Final assets: €6,307.36

Here, after costs, the ETF performs 4.03% better than the fund

5years: 78% vs 71%
Deka: €9,000, growth: €4,522.28, costs €897.7 ... Final assets: €12,624.57
ETF: €9,000, growth: €4,153.52, costs €44.11 ... Final assets: €13,109.41

Here the ETF outperforms the fund by 3.84% after costs
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Markus@financial_genius_20
10Mo
@Schneidi1985 It's just not easy and everyone has to decide for themselves. I have these two stocks (Deka, worldETf) running in parallel with 1x investment and Deka is doing better for me if I were to sell now. With useful brokers who have several OTC and stock exchanges connected and thus also minimize the buy/sell spreads (purchase costs), this works for me. If it's not good enough in other cases, that's ok too, but this constant bashing that all fund managers are incompetent, parasites and money-cutters and only ETFs are the cheap alternative that makes you happy, I just don't think that's ok. When I then look at money market ETFs that don't even outperform simple overnight money from German branch banks, it just shows that there are hot and junk funds everywhere.
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Aktienfabe@Aktienfabe
11Mo
In my opinion, I would stay away from Bayer at the moment. It's a bottomless pit at the moment. I would rather get in when the bottom is reached :) (of course, the turnaround with high returns would be a given here)
Coca-Cola is a solid company
Amazon as well (with the hope of a dividend one day)

Paypal has not had the big world-changing announcement. The numbers today will show where you stand (see more future and potential here with Apple Pay)
Paypal and Bayer would be as you say "to gamble" :D

I can't really say anything about the ETFs.
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Denis S.@Schneidi1985
11Mo
@Aktienfabe the turnaround can wait, I was planning to increase the share to around €1,000 - €2,000 this year, as I am also speculating on a turnaround. (It's really gambling again) but with a fixed limit. If the stock were to head further and faster south in the second half of the year, I would stop expanding this position. I don't really believe that PayPal has had its day yet, rather I still see the options here as in Asia, that supermarket chains etc. also switch to PayPal as a payment option (but maybe this is just wishful thinking, who knows).
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Aktienfabe@Aktienfabe
11Mo
@Schneidi1985 would be too high a risk for me personally
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Denis S.@Schneidi1985
11Mo
@Aktienfabe do you have any alternatives that you would like to share? regarding Bayer (I have already heard Apple Pay on Paypal)
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Aktienfabe@Aktienfabe
11Mo
@Schneidi1985 if you want to stay in the pharma sector possibly J&J, Novo Nordisk, Abbvie to name just 3.
(although Novo Nordisk is expensive at the moment)
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Krush82@Krush82
11Mo
Why not just go straight for daily savings plans of EUR 2.40? ;-) I would no longer put my money into Bayer, Infineon and Paypal to expect an outperformance in the long term
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Denis S.@Schneidi1985
11Mo
@Krush82 unfortunately not possible. I had specially switched from monthly to weekly with regard to the fluctuations.
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Blacki704@Blacki704
11Mo
Not necessarily all at once, just make a monthly savings plan that is higher than your normal savings rate and when the money is invested you simply change the savings plan again. This way you can possibly benefit from the cost average effect
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