Have you ever used the Bitcoin Lightning Network? 👀
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@innovaclustersolution nope, much too complicated
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@DonkeyInvestor How complicated? You don't have to set up your own node and manage channels :D
Phoenix or Wallet of Satoshi, for example, are stock simulators :)
Phoenix or Wallet of Satoshi, for example, are stock simulators :)
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•@stefan_21 I haven't dealt with it for a while. That alone makes it complicated, because you have to deal with it. The last thing I did was: I have to transfer expensive money to a node, hope that the person I want to send it to can be reached via P2P. And he then has to transfer it back to his normal wallet at great expense. So far so complicated. Has anything changed?
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•@DonkeyInvestor that's easier now :)
I like to use the Phoenix app, for example.
In principle, you don't have to worry about anything. You can send OnChain Bitcoin there and get it swapped directly into Lightning and can then spend it. If there is not enough liquidity in one direction, the channel is created "on the fly" (or the liquidity of your channel is automatically increased)
I like to use the Phoenix app, for example.
In principle, you don't have to worry about anything. You can send OnChain Bitcoin there and get it swapped directly into Lightning and can then spend it. If there is not enough liquidity in one direction, the channel is created "on the fly" (or the liquidity of your channel is automatically increased)
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@DonkeyInvestor and of course you can do the same in the other direction. You can also close the channel again and get the remaining sats back OnChain
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@stefan_21 and yet: The recipient must be accessible via P2P from my node. And there are the normal fees for transferring and withdrawing to / from lightning. Plus the (very low) lightning fees.
How is security ensured, e.g. with the Phoenix app? Additional layer = additional risk
How is security ensured, e.g. with the Phoenix app? Additional layer = additional risk
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•@DonkeyInvestor Of course, the recipient must be reachable and you have an additional risk. That's why Lightning is there to pay and not to store your Bitcoin stack :)
At least with Phoenix you hold your own keys. But of course this is not compatible with your Bitbox.
However, I've already paid a few times with Phoenix vie Lightning and never had any problems.
At least with Phoenix you hold your own keys. But of course this is not compatible with your Bitbox.
However, I've already paid a few times with Phoenix vie Lightning and never had any problems.
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@stefan_21 It's probably also because I simply don't see Bitcoin as a means of payment. For me, Lightning is still a crutch to turn something into something else, which it is not 🤷
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@DonkeyInvestor Well, money has always worked in layers. A base money and then layers built on top of that, which are optimized for payment transactions. Our current financial system works in exactly the same way. The central bank holds the base money, commercial banks build up bank money on top of it, and then Visa, PayPal, Apple Pay, etc. are added on top as payment layers. When you pay with your card, nothing moves on the base layer at first - this is only settled later between the banks. And the bank transactions are then settled at the end, e.g. in the case of the dollar via Fedwire. Nevertheless, each layer has its own risks/dependencies. And nobody would say that a card payment is a crutch to turn central bank money into something it is not :)
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•@stefan_21 That's a fair point. There are certainly other analogies to be found. For example, I can't pay by credit card everywhere. But for now, it doesn't change the fact that I find lightning too cumbersome. Yes, no adaptation without use. But I'm now past the age where I always had to try out the latest crap 😁😅. And that was your original question.
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