1Lun·

Leverage products & certificates Functionality

Question of understanding:

Dear community, since there is not really a sample portfolio at flatex, or you can test this without losing money 😁, can someone explain the mechanics to me ?

Using the example of $NU (-11,11 %) when will I be undocked ? When does the bill expire?

Assuming I now buy 10,000 shares at 0.16 = 1,600.00 euros, how much of a loss do I have to make for it to become worthless?

Is the strike price equal to the knock-out threshold? Or do I have to start from the USD 10.98 (about 10.65 euros) and at -11 % the bill expires ?

Perhaps someone here has some experience, learning by doing could be quite expensive, especially as I am not yet sure how the costs will be affected ?

Maybe it's a display error because of the weekend? 😁

The explanatory videos from flatex are usually not helpful here.

Thanks in advance ✌️

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41 Comentarios

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Finanzaristokrat@Finanzaristokrat

1Lun

If the KO threshold of 9.5737 is reached, the ticket is KO and you lose the entire stake. The spread of 3 cents (BID/ASK) is far too expensive. If you buy (0.16) you are almost 20% in the
minus. The spread should be no more than 1 cent.

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Finanzaristokrat thanks for the quick replyc I knew that I was knocked out at the KO threshold, but what is the basis here? It can't be that the basis is the same as the knock out, so I would immediately be at - 0.1 KO.

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Finanzaristokrat that means the bill is at 0.13 and I buy at 0.16 and am therefore already down 18% and need 3% + with the 6 leverage to catch up, if I have understood that correctly and how is that with this price then with the knock out?

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Finanzaristokrat@Finanzaristokrat

1Lun

@BamBamInvest the bill is KO as soon as the specified strike price is reached. Strike price = knockout threshold. You buy at a higher price.

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Finanzaristokrat yes ok I understood that correctly then but the current price is 10,98$ so at -11% I am out ?
(Do I have to convert dollars to euros because the current price is in dollars and the strike price is in euros? ) That would be the base price / knockout ? In other words, with 6 leverage - 2 % and I am out with the high spread, have I understood that correctly ?

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Finanzaristokrat@Finanzaristokrat

1Lun

@BamBamInvest As I see it at the moment, the 6.3 leverage is 13.9% away from the
(is always the price on the home exchange) 9.44$ away. In the after hour the NU hldg has increased and stands at 11.16$. All clear?

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Finanzaristokrat I am not really aware of where the price is now and that it has risen by 1.73% to $11.16 in the after-hours trading. But how does this relate to the knock-out threshold? It would be helpful if the $ rate were converted into the euro rate. If I have understood this correctly now, the price in euros at the end of trading, e.g. at trategate, is 10.65 euros, tomorrow when after-hours trading is slightly higher. If I were in the bond now and the price were to fall from EUR 10.65 to EUR 9.4737 (knock-out threshold), the bond would be worthless. Did I understand that correctly? The price is displayed in the home stock exchange, but since the knock-out threshold and the underlying value are in euros, I have to use the euro value for orientation? Sorry but not so easy to understand

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Finanzaristokrat I have now looked at it with the DAX, where I have EUR/EUR is easier to understand than if you have displayed the price in $ and the underlying value in euros.

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Finanzaristokrat@Finanzaristokrat

1Lun

@BamBamInvest I'll stick with your screen. You have euro prices there and that's what we're using as a guide. If the price slips to or below the specified base value, you are KO and your stake is gone. At Scalable and Traderepublic, the underlying values are always displayed in $ and I then follow this in the chart at Webull in $. But it's actually easy to understand once you get the hang of it.

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Finanzaristokrat yes thank you , in my screen above the $ rate is also listed with 10.98 $ at the end of trading . But since the underlying is in euros, this is confusing because I have to track it in euros, if I have understood it correctly 😄. I think I understand it now the $/€ rate just confused me . I'll have a look tomorrow and pay attention to the spread and then start a small position to test it. Thanks anyway ✌️

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Finanzaristokrat@Finanzaristokrat

1Lun

@BamBamInvest This is really stupid with the $/€. How are you supposed to cope with that? Some others have also written that normally the base price is always displayed in the currency of the home market.

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Ver todas las 7 respuestas adicionales

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Caynify@Caynify

1Lun

Do you want to go long?

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Caynify First of all, I just want to understand how it works with this broker, as the figures quoted are confusing.

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Meister L.@Lumimyrsky

1Lun

Can confirm that learning by doing is expensive. But as with normal share purchases, I think it pays off in the long term.

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Lumimyrsky It's more about understanding it and broadening my horizons and maybe leaving some play money at the table. But unfortunately it's not self-explanatory.

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Meister L.@Lumimyrsky

1Lun

@BamBamInvest Yes, I understand

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Chris@Multibagger

1Lun

I trade these bills at Trade republic. I find it quite clear there. There you can also see how high the leverage is and whether there are differences between the strike price and the KO. However, with Trade Republic you have restrictions on the choice of issuers. I am currently also invested in Nu with a KO from HSBC. The spread is 1 cent.

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Multibagger thanks for the feedback, yes I'll have to have a look tomorrow, maybe it's also the weekend that it's displayed so awkwardly. ✌️

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Der_Dividenden_Monteur Perhaps you can explain this to me, is it perhaps displayed more clearly with one broker than with another?

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Enrique@Dividenden_Monteur

1Lun

@BamBamInvest the overview is really a bit complicated 😅 the most important thing here is the KO threshold, which here is €8.8xx, although I also find this a bit strange as a € value is displayed here. Normally the value in the home exchange is displayed here, i.e. $.

For example, I have this one DE000HT16Y79 with a KO at 8.94$

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Der_Dividenden_Monteur with the 4 lever it is at 8.8 with the 6 lever at 9.47 . And yes, dollars are displayed at the top with 10.98 and euros at the bottom, how are you supposed to work that out for yourself 😂 I have the feeling that you lose money when you buy and then leave it alone 😁

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Chris@Multibagger

1Lun

@BamBamInvest I have the HT16y9 with KO at 9.45 $. I bought it for € 0.10. Certainly that was the speculative variant with leverage of now still 7. When I bought on 30.12. it was still over 9.

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Finanzaristokrat@Finanzaristokrat

1Lun

At Scalable I see the KO in the home currency for the 6.3 leverage. It is there at 9.45$. And there it seems to be cheaper with sell 0.16 and buy 0.17

DE000HT16Y95

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Finanzaristokrat may also be due to the weekend, it will probably be much lower tomorrow. But I still don't understand the mechanics, I can't classify the values correctly.

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1Lun

I would also like to know my way around these bills. Flatex is not exactly helpful here. Maybe this will help you:
https://www.onvista.de/derivate/optionsschein-rechner

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Bonus thanks for the tip, yes it's really not easy to understand, I'll probably have to test it myself with play money to understand it, although I don't know what the costs are here.

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Bonus Basically, the products themselves are not difficult to understand how they work, but nobody understands the displays and how they are presented 😂.

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1Lun

@BamBamInvest
I am also in the process of finding out with small sums.
Good luck and be careful. 💸

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Bonus thank you too 😂

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Bonus To be honest, if a broker offers and wants to sell this, I don't understand why he doesn't make a video and practical example.

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DADlikesCRYPTO@DADlikesCRYPTO

1Lun

Good luck 😁👍

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@DADlikesCRYPTO danke 😁

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

1Lun

Maybe the broker is just making it so complicated. Because in the end, the broker is the winner.
Buffet says don't invest in anything you don't understand

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BamBamInvest@BamBamInvest

1Lun

@Tenbagger2024 right, don't want to know how many people have already paid a lesson here just to understand it 😂

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