1Sem.
It's absolutely frightening that even here there are people who take a negative view of abolishing these programs. That's where freedom of opinion ends for me. Anyone who thinks it's good to judge people on the basis of their race and other biological characteristics is welcome to keep this attitude to themselves.
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@Soprano Huh? Are you for or against it now?
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@Lorena 🤣🤣against.
Your "Huh, are you for or against?" shows in which categories people think.
I think 99% of people would agree that, for example, hiring should only be about skills/performance/experience and NOT about what the person has between their legs or what color their skin is.
But DEI is about exactly that. It is discrimination against certain groups in favor of other groups.
Of course, it is framed differently. It is also said that this discrimination only takes place in the case of equal suitability.
But this is practically unrealistic, because how likely is it that two people have absolutely the same education, experience, character and so on?
Your "Huh, are you for or against?" shows in which categories people think.
I think 99% of people would agree that, for example, hiring should only be about skills/performance/experience and NOT about what the person has between their legs or what color their skin is.
But DEI is about exactly that. It is discrimination against certain groups in favor of other groups.
Of course, it is framed differently. It is also said that this discrimination only takes place in the case of equal suitability.
But this is practically unrealistic, because how likely is it that two people have absolutely the same education, experience, character and so on?
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•@Malte123 Congratulations, with the passage "I think 99%..." you have described exactly THE core issue of diversity movements, but you have completely misinterpreted it. Ask minority groups, they would also be happy if they were judged purely on ability and not on prejudice. Nobody wants to take anything away from you, Malte. I find it really sad that you actually believe that
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•@Lorena Lorena, please don't project your fears onto me.
I'm not afraid that someone will take something away from me, so I don't need DEI programs to artificially elevate myself at the expense of others.
Please explain to me specifically (with examples) how DEI is not discrimination?
I'm afraid that you can't do that, but only switch to the personal level. I find that really sad:(
I'm not afraid that someone will take something away from me, so I don't need DEI programs to artificially elevate myself at the expense of others.
Please explain to me specifically (with examples) how DEI is not discrimination?
I'm afraid that you can't do that, but only switch to the personal level. I find that really sad:(
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•@Malte123 Because it's about making minorities more visible and giving them opportunities that were denied to them by history (prejudices, stereotypes and ignorance). Quite simply. Sorry, but if you're really labeling this as discrimination against people who are already privileged, I'm at a loss for words. You can research examples yourself if you're interested in the topic. I'm not being paid here to change your mind. 🤷🏻♀️
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•@Lorena By minorities, you must mean women in particular, right?
They have to be promoted with quotas for women, among other things, because they only make up just over 50% of the population and of university graduates?
If you take a look at the comment from @Mister_ultra above, for example, is this fair in your world view?
I also know a few examples in my environment.
The logic behind it might be something like "we have to punish today's men in favor of today's women, because earlier women were discriminated against in favor of earlier men?"
That would at least be a clear statement that you could work with.
Unfortunately, however, only vague standard phrases are ever repeated...
They have to be promoted with quotas for women, among other things, because they only make up just over 50% of the population and of university graduates?
If you take a look at the comment from @Mister_ultra above, for example, is this fair in your world view?
I also know a few examples in my environment.
The logic behind it might be something like "we have to punish today's men in favor of today's women, because earlier women were discriminated against in favor of earlier men?"
That would at least be a clear statement that you could work with.
Unfortunately, however, only vague standard phrases are ever repeated...
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•@Malte123 No, I'm not talking about women. There are also other minorities that are included in diversity groups. I'm talking about the big picture.
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•@Lorena the "big picture", can you go into more detail?
The above example also falls under DEI, as already asked, do you think that's fair?
And could you give other examples that clarify the meaning of DEI (please don't use standard phrases like (making minorities more visible... etc). There must be practical examples of this, right?
Unfortunately, you never get specific answers to such questions. If it's all so great, it must be practical or even verifiable with figures, right? How else can you be so sure?
The above example also falls under DEI, as already asked, do you think that's fair?
And could you give other examples that clarify the meaning of DEI (please don't use standard phrases like (making minorities more visible... etc). There must be practical examples of this, right?
Unfortunately, you never get specific answers to such questions. If it's all so great, it must be practical or even verifiable with figures, right? How else can you be so sure?
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•@Lorena "Nobody wants to take anything away from you" what do you say if I can now prove that this is exactly what is happening? In the USA, it is common practice that university admissions are regulated by "affirmative action". This means that Asians are rejected for university admission because the proportion of academics among Asians is already "too high" and therefore there is inequality.
People of Asian origin are a minority in the USA, but on average they have a higher level of education than "white" Americans, which is why they are structurally disadvantaged in the allocation of university places compared to whites.
So when you celebrate diversity, you are not necessarily standing up for the rights of minorities. On the contrary, you even have at least one foot in anti-Semitism, because diversity also means that you have to actively exclude certain minorities if you feel that they supposedly have too much education, wealth or influence.
On paper, what you say may make some sense. However, there is no real diversity program that interprets diversity in the way you are explaining it to us. In practice, it is purely about ensuring that people in an organization look as different as possible, not about creating equal opportunities between people with different backgrounds.
People of Asian origin are a minority in the USA, but on average they have a higher level of education than "white" Americans, which is why they are structurally disadvantaged in the allocation of university places compared to whites.
So when you celebrate diversity, you are not necessarily standing up for the rights of minorities. On the contrary, you even have at least one foot in anti-Semitism, because diversity also means that you have to actively exclude certain minorities if you feel that they supposedly have too much education, wealth or influence.
On paper, what you say may make some sense. However, there is no real diversity program that interprets diversity in the way you are explaining it to us. In practice, it is purely about ensuring that people in an organization look as different as possible, not about creating equal opportunities between people with different backgrounds.
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•@Soprano That's how it always works. As soon as it gets specific and an objective argument is needed, people withdraw.
I sometimes ask myself whether this doesn't cause cognitive dissonance? How are they suppressed?
I'm not at all surprised that the population went along with National Socialism back then. Today, this would be just as possible in a slightly different form (e.g. other "bad guys") purely in terms of logical/independent thinking and group dynamics/emotions.
I sometimes ask myself whether this doesn't cause cognitive dissonance? How are they suppressed?
I'm not at all surprised that the population went along with National Socialism back then. Today, this would be just as possible in a slightly different form (e.g. other "bad guys") purely in terms of logical/independent thinking and group dynamics/emotions.
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