1Année·

We need to talk!!!

Open discussion.

A report in the last Weltspiegel made me think.

It was about child labor in the cocoa harvest.

Children were shown who had never attended school and lived in catastrophic conditions on the plantations. Who were doing the pest control without protective clothing.

The product chocolate was completely unknown to the children.

Unfortunately, there was no statement from the major confectionery manufacturers and reference was only made to a protection organization. This simply outsources all responsibility and promotes the organization.

How do you proceed with your investments and what role does it play for you?

And shouldn't there be more pressure from the shareholders, because I personally think that such working conditions will be impossible in 2024.

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https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/heil-lieferkettengesetz-100.html

www.tagesschau.deKeine Einigung bei EU-Lieferketten-Richtlinie

39 Commentaires

Kevin E.@KevinE

1Année

The problem is: if you dig deep enough, you will find problematic issues in almost every (!) major company. Environmental protection, good employment conditions, etc., are all written on the flag. I can say from various companies that the statements to the public were completely different from those made internally.

If I could be sure that everything was right with a company, I would focus more on that. But this way: no chance, because every company has the "potential" to be a monster or "slave driver" - even if it is their sub-sub-sub-suppliers or service providers.

I don't invest in armaments because I don't want to profit from war. I find everything else extremely difficult to evaluate unless you take an extremely close look at it.

In my view, consumers are the ones who have the biggest impact. But even they only ever know what it looks like outside the clean door of the headquarters and not where and how the primary materials and raw materials are procured in detail.

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Soprano@Soprano

1Année

Unfortunately, you have allowed yourself to be manipulated by the German media, who think they have to broadcast their imperialism to the world. In short, every country has the right to pursue its own policies and organize its own society. If the children there were not working in the cocoa harvest, they might become child soldiers - this kind of secondary effect is not considered at all. Everything that comes from the public is "Muuuuh third world bad, Germany good". Ultimately, that doesn't help anyone at all. But it is useful to nudge the viewers into thinking that it would actually be quite cool to have a world government and a decent leader who is able to solve all the world's ills from his ivory palace in Berlin.

A few centuries ago, there was also child labor in Europe and our kings, when they thought it was possible and sensible, eliminated this situation on their own. Why don't we trust the states in Africa to do the same? Why do we think that we have to march to Nigeria in white uniforms to explain to the people there how to live the RIGHT way?

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Arroganter F.@werhatdemwirdgegeben

1Année

This attitude is so blatantly wrong! We could easily do something about it if we were prepared to pay a few cents more for chocolate. But no, we want cheap chocolate, screw it, then children pick the cocoa, can't go to school for it, can't move up and their children have to do the same. So that we in Europe can still eat cheap chocolate in the future.

I'm shocked by so much naivety...

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

1Année

@werhatdemwirdgegeben
And then they even argue with kings from the Middle Ages.
That's how it is in an affluent society - people have lost absolutely all understanding of the weaker members of society.
Everything is just accepted and you just watch like in a horror movie

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

1Année

I don't think such problems should and cannot be solved by the EU alone and, as has been written several times in the discussion, would damage our economy.
That is why the UN should be strengthened much more in order to solve the major problems and thus ensure a level playing field.
This is a problem that should and must be solved globally.

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1Année

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

1Année

@Apfel72
Every aid organization has already had a scandal. UNICEF, the Red Cross, etc.

Should we therefore declare bankruptcy and stop making the world just a little bit better?

Giving up because of a few black sheep is no solution either.

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

1Année

So we have less than 1000 employees, but we are still bound by the Supply Chain Act because our customers simply demand proof from us. That's also what the big players do, simply delegate responsibility... Shit falls from the top down. From this point of view, the FDP's blockade is incomprehensible. They should have shown Heil the edge on a few of his other issues.

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

1Année

The job of journalists is simply to point out grievances. And when it comes to children, I find it very difficult to discuss it away in a succinct way.
Children simply belong in school, even in developing countries, and do not have to feed their families.

And in such an interconnected and global world, I don't think it's in keeping with the times to let countries solve the problem themselves, as the kings did in the Middle Ages.

Fortunately, unlike in the Middle Ages, there are media that uncover grievances and draw attention to them.
And I think that this report will make some consumers rethink their purchasing behavior and perhaps automatically force the industry to rethink.

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Soprano@Soprano

1Année

@Tenbagger2024 Standing up for children is noble and the right thing to do. But you can start with that in this country. If we could manage to protect our children from sexual assault, that would be pretty powerful. Incidentally, most developing countries manage this much better than we do.

Sending all children to school is also a noble goal. But do you know if there are even enough schools? And teachers? These are the things that nobody thinks about here. We imagine that we can somehow solve everything from our sofa at home, but it's not that simple. In many countries that tolerate child labor, the alternative is not a cozy, heated school, but things that are much crueler and worse. The children then end up with human traffickers or warlords or drug cartels. These countries are structurally incapable of solving all problems at once, which is why it makes sense to start with those that are most urgent.

And we're not talking about the Middle Ages here. Child labor in agriculture was only banned in (West) Germany in 1960! We had already taken the children out of the mines in 1839, which means it took over 120 YEARS to gradually abolish it. And you expect the German consumer to order this from the comfort of their couch and for it to be gratefully implemented in the farthest corners of the world tomorrow.

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Tim@Tacticus

1Année

I have no ethical principles.
Since I own broadly diversified ETFs, I have companies of every color.

Clear point PRO diversification...Or was that diversity! 🤪
Joking aside.

However, I have no principles when it comes to investing. I'm completely honest about that. I don't ACTIVELY exclude stocks from ETFs! How could I?
What I do: When I buy certain companies as individual shares, I buy likeable companies. This includes their image, company policy/company philosophy. Headlines would definitely stop me here.
If you like it that way, I PASSIVELY exclude certain companies. Logical. I only want to invest in the best and strongest companies in my opinion. Everyone has to play by the rules. Otherwise terrible things happen.
--> See Bayer $BAYN and $NACON

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Tim@Tacticus

1Année

@Tenbagger2024 edited it.

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Dude@Ridick

1Année

I think the ESG and SRI certificates are even causing banks to waver, as they also want to comply with them. See reports on why Rheinmetall has to pay much higher interest rates than usual on the market, as many (normal) banks do not allow trading in armaments. As an example. I think ESG and SRI are useful and if I were to reorient myself, I would probably switch to an ESG or SRI.... Incidentally, they perform better than normal ETFs but are less diversified. I think the pressure is increasing thanks to ESG and SRI.

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Hodlinvestor@Hodlinvestor

1Année

European prosperity problem!!!

Just change your perspective!

Would you rather eat or be educated?!!! In case of need rather the food.

My father, for example, had to work from the age of 13 after the war. Otherwise his plate would have remained empty.
He died at the age of almost 70, working almost every day!!!
There was no prosperity then, let alone, as there is now, wealth to be distributed to the lazy!!!
...Yes, different times, different customs...
If the plate remains empty, that will change again. And very quickly!

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

1Année

@Hodlinvestor
But only education can be the solution to somehow get out of this spiral of poverty.
Only children who receive a good education manage to get out of a Hartz family in Germany and do not end up unemployed like their parents.

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Hodlinvestor@Hodlinvestor

1Année

In politically stable systems, such as in Europe, definitely yes, plus waiver through working hours (no longer wanted here)

But your report was about child labor on cocoa plantations!
Child labor is forbidden here and there are no cocoa plantations in Germany! So there was no report about German luxury problems.

There is usually no democracy in these countries! Completely unstable political conditions.
There are other daily problems for families, e.g. eating and drinking, than any spelling mistakes in English work.
Ergo, the people must first muster the will for political change and then they can build prosperity through education in peace.
(All my opinion, I'm just here to pass the time😆)

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Schubi@Schubi74

1Année

If something obviously criminal is going on, I don't invest either. But I don't see that German companies are now responsible for the conditions in Africa. Their governments are responsible for the conditions in third countries. If our politicians want to change something there, then they should exert political pressure or promote specific local projects instead of pumping vast sums of development aid into countries that can afford a space program or new SUVs for all parliamentarians. Imposing control obligations on companies that are impossible to fulfill doesn't help the people on the ground at all, it just establishes another trade in safety certificates and the questionable stories are somehow concealed. These attempts to improve the world on the other side of the world don't work because someone else always gets the business, as you can see with the Russian embargo, the Indian refineries fill their pockets, then the stuff is sold to Europe and Putin laughs his head off.

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1Année

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

1Année

@GERMANCAP
I would gladly do without dividends in order to be able to put an end to such conditions.

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1Année

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

1Année

@Benchmarc
On the other hand, we are upset that more and more young people from developing countries are making the journey to Europe. And hardly anything is being done to combat the problem in developing countries.

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