Alexs · 2024-04-27T15:17:24.754449Z

I'm under 30 and often complain about Germany, the high tax burden, the disastrous pension policy. The rising social security contributions, the migration policy and the fact that, as a top 10% earner in my age group, I can't build a house without enormous risk or a clear conscience. I have noticed that more and more of my colleagues are thinking about emigrating. I'm one of them, as I almost always work from home anyway. But what are the positive aspects of Germany that people often seem to forget? Drop some points and factors in the thread that make Germany unique. I would be particularly interested in the perspective of expats. What motivates Gen Z to stay here?

1Année

Take a trip to the hinterland of Romania, Albania or Kosovo and go on vacation there. You'll be happy again when hot water comes out of the shower at home.

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memok777@memok777

1Année

@Pezi of course you've named the perfect countries :).
How about Canada, Cyprus, Portugal (Madeira highly recommended)Switzerland, USA, Thailand, Dubai (UAE) unsafe everywhere? no hot water anywhere?

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

1Année

@memok777 hmmm too cold, too warm, too poor, too small, I think it's cool, lol !!!, too many sand people...

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Pezi@Pezi

1Année

@memok777 You can also emigrate to the countries you listed...., but I doubt that you will be able to buy a little house there for a short time at your age...

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Enrique@Dividenden_Monteur

1Année

@memok777 you can easily buy a house in the USA, but unlike ours, they are not built to last forever, they are made of chipboard...
And if you can't afford a house here, then certainly not in Dubai either

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Pezi@Pezi

1Année

@Der_Dividenden_Monteur you can also get a house in Germany for less than 50,000 euros. But that's not enough for most people, as the demand is too high or the house is in the middle of nowhere...

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Enrique@Dividenden_Monteur

1Année

@Pezi That's right!
It has to be located in the bacon belt of (insert any major city here)

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Testo-Investor@Testo-Investor

1Année

@Pezi great example.... Compare the whole third world with Germany .... 😂😂😂😂

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Pezi@Pezi

1Année

@Testo-Investor I wasn't comparing it with Germany, I just wanted to make him understand that what is taken for granted here is not the case everywhere....

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

1Année

@Der_Dividenden_Monteur It's just a lot of timber frame construction, they don't build any differently in Scandinavia. But they are no longer cheap. During the Lehman bankruptcy, you could get something damn cheap.

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memok777@memok777

1Année

@Reinecke in most other countries (the ones I mentioned before and a few more, but not all of course) people are happier than here, despite our beautiful houses.
Not everything has to be the same as here for everything to be right and good.

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Voir toutes les 15 autres réponses

Eselai@DonkeyInvestor

1Année

People complain about Germany all the time but don't do anything. That's positive because it doesn't seem to be that bad 👍

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Marco@Marco_91

1Année

- High security, police come when you need them!
- High quality of medical care - you can easily see a doctor within 1 hour and don't have to worry about costs
- Clear rules / no arbitrariness / generally good political situation
etc etc!
- everyone who complains about Germany should leave -> but most of them will come back!

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Marco@Marco_91

1Année

@Maximilian01 Hello Maximilian, it's all very subjective. I partly agree with you that not everything is good in Germany either. The question is always which countries we compare ourselves with. Believe me, I've seen a lot of the world. We are well off in Germany.... I'm glad you've found a better country for yourself.

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Enrique@Dividenden_Monteur

1Année

If I fall ill here, the social safety net will catch me.
My employer has rules here that he has to abide by.
Food prices are still cheap despite inflation.
You can still achieve something here through work.

Now I compare my points with the USA, for example, because I've often been there on business:

If I get sick, I have ~5 sicdays with most employers, the rest comes off vacation or is unpaid

My employer only has to abide by rules if I am in a union, which in turn costs me a lot of money.

Food prices are insane, fast food is sometimes cheaper than the comparable amount of fruit/vegetables at Walmart, don't even get me started on the Wholefoods stores.

The point about work also applies here, because I could work 3 jobs here without slipping into a different tax bracket or being hindered by the Working Hours Act.

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ashish J.@JaqenH

1Année

@Der_Dividenden_Monteur but if you fall ill here , it's possible you won't see a doctor for a week until you are dying. And it's bizzare that people here think it's normal considering you pay a hell lot more for insurance than the total cost of remedy in some countries.

BTW regarding job security, it's now been abused by german employers left right and center especially with expats who are unsure about the rules here. It's a matter of time before a german also experience that.

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Enrique@Dividenden_Monteur

1Année

@reach2ashish I can't agree with you, sorry. If you're really ill, you can get an appointment with any doctor straight away. The problem with us is more that people go to the emergency room with a nosebleed or book an appointment for an MRI with a torn muscle and then wonder why their "emergency" case doesn't get an appointment. I can't comment on expats, but I can't imagine it, or it depends on the company in question. When an expat had problems at my last two employers, they were taken care of immediately, either through the works council or the union was called in, and an expat also has an employment contract. One was a 16,000-person company and the other was a 500-person company.

If you have had bad experiences as expat in Germany, I am sorry. But that does not reflect the whole of society

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Okan@Okan1992

1Année

Good kebab

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Manuel@Ghoscht

1Année

@Okan1992 If you look for it, you will find it. Unfortunately, it's sometimes cheeky what you get for good money. The man I trust now charges €8 for a good piece. When I see his spit and experience his passion in conversation, I'm happy to pay that.

Nevertheless: kebab price brake, NOW! 😅😉

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Hodlinvestor@Hodlinvestor

1Année

My mother built a house in the seventies as a single parent with two children. With enormous risks and subsequent interest rate increases that would be unaffordable today. (They were back then too).
She saw the opportunities as greater than the risks...!
If she could do it, so can you!
Sometimes you should stop complaining and just do it.

( Well... I couldn't go on vacation three times. And not the latest car every three years either. Priorities were still set then)

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Hennington Research@HennRes

1Année

Sozialversicherungssystem

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Alexs@user10b71cd85c3c4456

1Année

@Hennington-Research I see that more as a huge point of criticism.

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John@Transporter

1Année

@user10b71cd85c3c4456 But only if you earn well and are healthy. If you are permanently ill, it can quickly become very expensive if you have to pay out of your own pocket.

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Pezi@Pezi

1Année

@user10b71cd85c3c4456 Where do you think it's better? 🤔

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Hodlinvestor@Hodlinvestor

1Année

Unique in Germany, meanwhile, are all his woken whiners who were brought up by heli parents and have no ability to perform.
Gen Z stays here because they are better off here than anywhere else 🤣

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Lukas1000@Lukas1000

1Année

@Hodlinvestor very subjective statement

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Hodlinvestor@Hodlinvestor

1Année

@Lukas1000 That's right!!!
And that's a good thing!

What should I say other than my own opinion, from my personal experience?

Whether it's different 200km away or in the neighboring house is subjectively irrelevant to me.

I'm not a "Germany saver", I'm just a family protector!
My family!

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

1Année

Reliable, modern (look around in other countries), organized, social, safe

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

1Année

@Maximilian01 Yes, modern. Compare German electrics with electrics abroad; France is enough, you don't need to see 110V networks in the USA. Overall, craftsmanship/engineering is very modern here, we are simply complaining at a high level.

Yes, our pension system is not great, but at least we have a pension system.

Our healthcare system is great. In some countries in Eastern Europe, you can't get very far without bribes.

I'm not saying we're the best everywhere, but overall we're a very modern country where you can live really well.

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Tobias@Slakish

1Année

@devnerd_daddy DIN and TÜV <3

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

1Année

@Maximilian01 Holy cow, that's wrong on so many levels, where do I start?

So "just put a voltage transformer in front" is probably this problematic education system you're talking about. I hope you realize that more volts don't just come out of thin air, but are bought with more amps and how much A do you want to shoot through the cables? That doesn't change the overall calculation, i.e. how much power a phase delivers. What's more, the American power grid is completely dilapidated compared to ours and power outages occur more frequently.

Yes, our electricity is expensive, but this has nothing to do with the shutdown of nuclear power plants and everything to do with the way the price of electricity is calculated. In France, for example, electricity is much cheaper simply because it is heavily subsidized. Nuclear power plants don't have a problem with safety, they have a problem with final disposal. As long as nobody wants the nuclear waste, it should simply not be produced. Nuclear power plants are expensive to build and maintain, but thanks to subsidies, their operation is subsidized. The bottom line is that other types of energy generation are much cheaper. In the USA they just frack until they drop, screw nature. To be honest, I would like my children to grow up in uncontaminated nature.

It is clear that our pension system is not optimal, but to come up with the argument that a pure 401K would be better for high earners shows an absolutely asocial attitude. Our education system also needs reform, but excluding coronavirus effects, we are relatively stable according to PISA, i.e. not "getting worse and worse".

You can see a doctor for free, go to hospital almost free of charge and get cheap medication. My last call to the emergency doctor was €5, in the USA it's several hundred dollars for an ambulance call. A little joke on the side, you don't get Ibus, you have to pay for it yourself. I paid an insane 2€ for my last pack, wow.

These "many" Yugoslavians who have their teeth done back home, do you have a source other than "Trust me, bro"? The same goes for the "many" pensioners. Besides, you can't just compare our wage level with the cost of living there. I could live like a king in Thailand on my salary, but you can't compare apples and oranges.

Raising the property tax was another one of those things. Honestly, who cares, it's so cheap here that the few euros hardly make a difference.

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ashish J.@JaqenH

1Année

@devnerd_daddy reliable - look at DB crumbling, modern ah yes faxes are the most modern thing in21st century, meanwhile your own chancellor is not so sure about Internet, social , lmaof, Germans themselves know they are known to be anti social, safe - for now yes thanks to NATO and US . But how good is it to be dependent on outside powers for your safety.

I can tell you that you have never travelled much outside DACH bubble coz the rest of the world is way way more modern than Germany which still feels stuck somewhere in 1990s

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

1Année

@reach2ashish now that is a lot of bollocks. Germans are anti social? Where did you get that from?

And hey, let’s get practical. Please name these many much more modern, safer, more social countries that apparently also have a military that strong, they don’t need anyone else. I’m really eager to learn.

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

1Année

@Maximilian01 Before I answer this, please answer my question.

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Voir toutes les 4 autres réponses

Neo@NE0

1Année

As I belong to Generation Z myself, I would also like to explain my reasons for staying. Since my mother is from the Balkans and I therefore spend a lot of vacation there, I can only say that at first you always think wow, warm weather, people are more relaxed, everyone is sitting in cafés and enjoying life. Of course, that's only one side of the coin, poor pay, education and the economic prospects aren't exactly rosy either. Nevertheless, I am always happy to be back in Germany, because I need the structure in life for everything that Germany once stood for: punctuality, efficiency, orderliness, devotion to car culture. I associate myself with these values, even if they have been somewhat (severely) shaken in recent years, and I want to try to preserve them despite the bad politics...

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He-Man D.@He-Man

1Année

Where do you all want to emigrate to?

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

1Année

@He-Man I'm just relocating to the land of opportunity, once again.

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Martin B.@zebAshor84

1Année

@Reinecke But you need a permit for this. Not everyone has one.

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

1Année

@zebAshor84 I had applied for and received US citizenship. That works quite well. I'm getting the best of both worlds, although it's a challenge when it comes to taxes.

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income_magician_169@income_magician_169

1Année

@Reinecke Were you born there or did you apply for a green card?

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

1Année

@income_magician_169 Short form - Option 3 I joined the armed forces and then got citizenship.

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Eggplant@Eggplant

1Année

@Reinecke but if you work from DE you remain liable for tax in DE

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

1Année

@Eggplant Yes, I am, but there is a tax treaty between the USA and Germany. In the end, it really is a challenge for the tax office. But it's going quite well.

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ashish J.@JaqenH

1Année

As an expat. Actually nothing excites me about Germany. I have been here for a decade so cannot switch now. But to someone just starting up, I would say go out of the DACH bubble. There is an entire different world, which is zooming at much greater speed compared to relaxed Germany.

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Barsten@Barsten

1Année

You don't have to work if you don't like it and you get money from the taxpayers so that you can enjoy life.

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Stephan K.@StrahlemannLP

1Année

I came back from South Africa yesterday after a week away and one thing you always forget: you don't constantly turn around and check your back or go out with only the minimum necessary because you're afraid of being ripped off: In this specific case, colleagues were also ripped off smartphones in the evening because they had crossed the street at the wrong hour and the transitions between safe zone and unsafe zone are narrow and difficult to recognize for a tourist.

Even at Zurich airport, you went through the terminal again as normal and when I drove home through Hamburg, there was one thing I didn't miss: The walls, barbed wire and e-fences around "safe" neighborhoods.

Here in Germany you feel safe and I fully understand that you can stake your life on a peaceful life with a chance of wealth and prosperity if you come from a country where the dice decide what happens to you. And that's what we forget, rich and tired as we've become, what that alone is worth. So there's not much that makes me want to leave Germany for a bit of money.

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Jonas24@Jonas24

1Année

The previous generations didn't all emigrate because things weren't going well, because then they got down to work and worked on the future. I think you can't just throw that away - which is what your grandparents, great-grandparents and parents stood up for

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Thomas@DivTom

1Année

Being able to simply throw dirty toilet paper in the toilet and not in the garbage can next to you💩

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NiMe@NiMe

1Année

Ethnocultural roots and the future. Not everything can be viewed in monetary terms.

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

1Année

@NiMe aren't we just abolishing everything that is German?

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Thesaurus@Thesaurus

1Année

@Reinecke you can try to change something instead of looking for the wide open ;)

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

1Année

@IIlIlIIlIIllIl I go to work and there will be more living space for the new specialists.

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CD@Carpe-Diem

1Année

Many Germans come to Austria. We need you to keep the balance between a structured and flexible mindset. And also in action: 😀
- Kebab for 5€
- Cheaper council apartments

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Jonas@Leipziger_Jung

1Année

Nobody in Germany has ever gone bankrupt because they broke their arm. In other words, medical care is quite cheap and of high quality. Education is also free here (at least to a large extent). You don't have to take out a loan of over 100k for your studies either. There is a functioning constitutional state. You also don't have to work 6 days a week (like in Asian countries or much of southern Europe). Germany is also relatively decentralized, i.e. not everything takes place in the capital like in England, France or Russia, but you can get good jobs everywhere.

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Tobias@Slakish

1Année

DIN and TÜV. Yes, it can be annoying, but I think it's good that there are standards. That there are regular checks

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FullyTaxedZarathustra@FullyTaxedZarathustra

1Année

Beer.

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FairValue@FairValue

1Année

Depending on where you live, there is still a relatively high level of internal security, some schools are still good, universities are good, the social system as such is relatively good.
No speed limit in some places.

There are a lot of things that are going downhill here, but that's the case almost everywhere.
In any case, there are few higher-quality alternatives.

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Sparfuchs@Reinecke

1Année

What's good about Germany ... it's home, it feels different and I'm the racist here, somewhere else I'm the foreigner. The health insurance is perfect, even if I live in the USA I still have health insurance in Germany. The same applies to long-term care insurance. Then there's the pension and the citizen's allowance. If you blow everything in the world, Germany will bring you home at its own expense and give you a roof over your head. The police here are comparable to the Bundeswehr - a traffic stop in Texas is something great, for one thing they're dumb as dirt and then they're also in the right. Luckily I'm not black. It's much nicer in Germany. Of course, there are many reasons to emigrate. But they have to want you.

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Hodlinvestor@Hodlinvestor

1Année

Risk is the salt in the soup of life!

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Grisadine@Grisadine

1Année

With English you understand people, but you're less likely to spend your free time in France, Greece, Bulgaria and the like with English, which means a language advantage at home.

Plus the social safety net of Germany.
Also the high minimum wage. Compare other countries' average wages with food prices and ours. They are worlds apart.

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Daxdaniel@Daxdaniel

1Année

I am currently living in Portugal, Lisbon, for my studies and the things that are particularly on my mind, but also partly depend on the region in Germany, are the following:
-Good roads and infrastructure (out of town top here, but car in the city impossible)
-Relatively clean roads
-Things work. You have heating, the windows close properly, it is reasonably compacted, less bungling
-Waiting times. We Germans are punctual and you miss that all the more when you are somewhere else.
-good wages and jobs, (still) functioning economy
- important airport and easy access to vacation destinations everywhere (also quite good here, but Frankfurt is already on a different level)
- Safety from natural disasters (there is something like the Aartal, but no tsunamis or like the recent one in Dubai)
- Schnitzel and German cuisine. I like the food in Germany better than in most other places, but of course that depends very much on taste. You can't get a Frankfurter schnitzel with fried potatoes like that anywhere here, or anything similar😫

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Hodlinvestor@Hodlinvestor

1Année

Come to Luxembourg 🇱🇺!
Everything is small and tranquil.
You can get to the airport in no time and get away quickly.
France, Belgium, Holland and, if necessary, Germany can be reached quickly.
Fuel is cheap. And the German highway is not far away 😉.

You earn good money 👍🏻 💰 and as a German you can make fun of the Germans.
Who still think they're saving the world 🌍 with their taxes.

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Invest@Longtermgoal

1Année

Parental allowance, free study, school, etc

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Dustin@Holmtown

1Année

In almost every populated area in Germany, you can have an ambulance with well-qualified personnel on site within 15 minutes at the latest; as far as I know, no other country in the world (city states perhaps) can do this. Plus the highest density of rescue helicopters.

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Alexs@user10b71cd85c3c4456

1Année

@Holmtown I like your answer. And of course that's a luxury. Nevertheless, I had to laugh. The first thing Germans think about is the risk of needing an ambulance

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Altun@Cheemaster

1Année

It's always best to compare with G7 countries and not with any developing countries, and we definitely do very, very, very badly in that respect. The quality of life has been falling for about 20 years, there's even a study on it :-) https://www.familienunternehmen.de/de/infografiken/laenderindex

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