4D·

Tested and simply put the cheaper broker

I briefly looked into the setup and trading, and you can say: It's just another broker with advantages and disadvantages. One advantage is the 24/5 trading and at 3 a.m. many shares can be traded with a spread of just 2 cents.

That's not even the prime-time ask/bid spread in Germany, at least for stocks like Amazon, Robinhood and co. So they are modern and cheap.

Potential disadvantages: The shares are stored and cleared in the USA and are therefore not bound by European rules. In addition, tokenized shares are not tax-simple, like almost everything in crypto. However, this can also be an advantage for some people. With tax apps, you pay your taxes a little later and at the same time the tax situation there is still pretty gray. On the one hand, tokenized shares should be treated like shares, but at the same time they are crypto-derivatives and therefore also valid for the one-year tax-free sale. For some people, there are also US ETFs to trade there, such as $SCHD or $VUG (-0,9 %) . Maybe for people like @GoDividend what or @ScorpionfromBW .

ThemenmitKopf

@topicswithhead

5D·

Robin hood

Today was $HOOD (-1,05 %) EU event and it's cool what they are launching. They don't seem to want to go away from brokers but want to go straight for crypto. Pretty bullish in the long term, but it remains to be seen how customers will react. Hopefully the neobrokers in the EU won't lose too many customers.

I am brutally curious to see how blockchain and shares will develop in the future. Perhaps we will see the first official IPO via blockchain in the next few years. I signed up for the rewards and to check out how it works.

https://newsroom.aboutrobinhood.com/robinhood-launches-stock-tokens-reveals-layer-2-blockchain-and-expands-crypto-suite-in-eu-and-us-with-perpetual-futures-and-staking/

newsroom.aboutrobinhood.comRobinhood Launches Stock Tokens, Reveals Layer 2 Blockchain, and Expands Crypto Suite in EU and US with Perpetual Futures and Staking - Robinhood Newsroom

27 Comentarios

Steffen@Maveric2005

the question with tokenized shares and etfs is, of course, how secure is the whole thing? Can it happen in the event of a "hack" that the tokens are "stolen" from the exchange and then no longer belong to you? For tax purposes, security tokens are not regarded as crypto but as securities in accordance with § 20 EStG. If robinhood now simplifies taxes and pays them itself, that could be a big deal.

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ThemenmitKopf@topicswithhead

@Maveric2005 Not really. They will have complied with the natural security measures, the blockchain leaves traces and the real shares will still be with a broker, which is why you should be able to get back to them quite quickly with support. Apart from that, you can't transfer the current tokens yet, so it's useless to try this at the moment. Later is a different matter. They are only in phase 1 of 3 and at 3 everything runs via their blockchain and can then be transferred from broker to broker within seconds. Dividends are paid out as money as normal. Splits lead to more tokens etc.

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Steffen@Maveric2005

All right. Then there's just the tax simplicity. The reduced spreads are naturally nice.

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

Absolutely uninteresting in Austria, for example - no serious offer 🤷🏽‍♂️

Positive first - access to the US market for 1€ and no order fee, only 0.1% FX fee

But, no ownership of real shares, only price mapping; no special assets, total loss possible (issuer risk); taxation according to income tax rate, not just 27.5% capital gains tax

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ThemenmitKopf@topicswithhead

@TomTurboInvest is of course stupid. The issuer risk should later expire in part, due to the fact that the tokens then become tardeable across brokers and therefore basically only the blockchain has to remain active. The broker then just has to offer it. Special assets are of course stupid, I have no idea whether this is the case in Germany and the tax is catastrophic. It doesn't have to be something for everyone, not even for me, but there are a few interesting things. The US ETFs are cool and I mainly used them for the rewards and loaded a few euros of crypto onto them for testing

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

@topicswithhead In Austria, unfortunately, the taxation is stupid, which makes it uninteresting with a halfway decent income, then you lose 50% 😭

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ThemenmitKopf@topicswithhead

@TomTurboInvest Germany is not much better, especially as it gets worse and worse.

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

An absolute no-go. Tokens are most likely not special assets. Order fees are also low for TR and SC and there is no tax problem. I would generally be skeptical about such unregulated stuff, especially if there is no added value.

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ThemenmitKopf@topicswithhead

@devnerd_daddy doesn't have to be for everyone, but the spread here is much more favorable. Above all, it is still a crypto app and should be seen as such. It's work and progress and you shouldn't see everything so negatively. No added value is a bit harsh, just because you don't like crypto doesn't mean it's useless

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

@topicswithhead Don't get me wrong, this is not a plea against crypto. It's a plea against tokenized shares. If I can buy a share for €1 in fees, which is in my name and is a special asset, and I can buy a tokenized share for free, where nobody can guarantee anything, then I'd rather invest the one euro. That's what I meant by "no added value".

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ThemenmitKopf@topicswithhead

@devnerd_daddy At the moment, yes, but things are set to get even better.

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

@topicswithhead I am open-minded, but the principle of "buy share", "sell share" has existed in exactly this form for over 100 years and I believe the system has come to an end :)

For some time now, the shares have no longer been lying around at home in paper form, but at a custodian, so I wonder why a layer of abstraction is needed for something where nothing is physically moved anyway. I'm getting vibes from dedicated developers with management ambitions who would like to build another wrapper around the wrapper 😅

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ThemenmitKopf@topicswithhead

@devnerd_daddy well, if this makes it cheaper then a wrapper also has its justification. First of all, counter intuitively that a third party can lower the costs, but that's how it is here. You can make sure that the share only has to be bought once and then traded offside. Just like market brokers already do today, but completely digitized. As this is only phase 1 of 3, I can see your criticism but less so in phase 3. Apart from that, it reads far too negatively. If people are no longer paying and would like to do so via crypto, what's wrong with that? If cost reduction is ultimately the main argument, then blockchain is the best solution. Of course you can say €1 is not much, but firstly it's never €1 and secondly €0.95 is a 5% reduction in price. Perhaps irrelevant for a small trade, but not for larger ones. If you don't strive for perfection, we would probably still be stuck with Visa fees of 2%.

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ThemenmitKopf@topicswithhead

@topicswithhead I'm not talking about Robinhood at all, but you should just cheer it on. The more money that flows into it, the better it gets and, above all, we benefit from it. Blockchain fully thought through should make stock exchange trading possible at zero cost, as an audit is available at almost zero cost as long as the blockchain is kept active.

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devnerd_daddy@devnerd_daddy

@topicswithhead This blockchain is operated by Robinhood and therefore creates another problem. Just ask the customers of cloud providers who want to withdraw their data. If the egress is suddenly very expensive, it will be difficult. Who is to say that Robinhood is not abusing its market power to set the price for transferring out of the blockchain far too high? In Germany, this is regulated and the transfer of real shares is free of charge.

And no, €1 is not a lot of money if you trade normally and if you do high-frequency trading, then not via Robinhood, but directly on the stock exchange with very short distances. With the best will in the world, I really don't see any benefit.

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ThemenmitKopf@topicswithhead

@devnerd_daddy Of course, the blockchain must have decentralized structures, otherwise it makes little sense. In addition, the tokens can also be traded via other chains, so I understand what you are trying to say here, but the whole thing would make no sense if Robinhood could really change the chain. The cloud comparison is weak and somehow gives the feeling that you have no idea how today's L2 blockchains can be launched, even by single entities. Don't know that clouds would somehow work like that. You don't have to invest, it's just that the most important banks in the world are all working on something like this, on ETH principles. If you don't understand the vision, that's just the way it is. The industry apparently sees things differently and I also see many use cases. You can use deep research to write down the pros and cons and then evaluate them.

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ThemenmitKopf@topicswithhead

@topicswithhead Apart from that, normal exchange operators can also use such technologies. More or less, they are already working on it in the R&D department. It would even be much more attractive for the exchanges, as the market broker could be removed. More margin for them. If it doesn't work, it would be just as old as it is now - just questionable blockchains

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ThemenmitKopf@topicswithhead

@topicswithhead and you need to have confidence in the products you use anyway. I don't understand the "what could be like" approach. DB can certainly do a lot, but it would simply be fatal for the exchange provider to do any nonsense. In the end, it will also be held responsible. You just have to check, inform yourself and in the end you have to trust the quality of the institution. It's difficult for me to look into the code structures

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Ver todas las 8 respuestas adicionales

Pedro M.@serkeftin

Who has been at the event? I've been there and haven't properly got the contacts!

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