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Pension enhancement 58 year old family member

Kowalski · 2025-01-18T09:56:56.411089Z

Hi, ich konnte meinen Vater jetzt endlich überzeugen, die Bereitschaft zu haben, sein Erspartes (200k) für die Altersvorsorge zu investieren. Er möchte noch ca. 5 Jahre arbeiten. Bitte um ein wenig Schwarmintelligenz. Wie würdet ihr das Geld investieren? Nur einen Etf/mehrere Etfs, Mischung aus Aktien und Etf? Nur auf Dividende setzen oder eine Mischung aus Dividende und Wachstum? (wie bspw. $FGEQ ) Vielen Dank im Voraus für alle Antworten.

ToDaMoon@randomdude

4D

I actually find an all-in equity approach to retirement quite charming. Provided your father's pension is high enough to cover his living expenses, regardless of the distributions. And he has to be able to cope with price fluctuations and possible double-digit percentage falls. He has not yet had this experience.
And yes, if he wants to go down this path, $FGEQ is a sensible thing to do.

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Kowalski@pinguin-

3D

@randomdude Unfortunately, the pension will probably just be enough to cover everything.

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ToDaMoon@randomdude

3D

@pinguin- Perhaps you would prefer to invest half in $XEOD - or work a little longer? In any case, make a precise plan and see what changes can realistically be achieved by investing in shares.

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D.S.@Cato_Bamboo

3D

@pinguin- If your pension is just enough to cover everything, then you should be very careful with the money you have saved so far. 200k is not a small amount....... And if you have little or no stock market experience, you should be even more careful. So my recommendation would be: 10%-15% gold, 10% $QYLE and 80% in a money market ETF.

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Newbe@Cash4live

2D

If you're on a tight pension, I would focus on dividends (60%), but also invest a portion in a growing ETF (40%) (MSCI World or S&P500). Your father also wants to get something out of it and not just increase your inheritance 😀

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Chris@Multibagger

3D

I find that very difficult for an outsider to judge. I am 1 year older than your father, but I came into contact with stock market trading quite early on. I have a high risk appetite and have experienced everything from 5-digit profits to 5-digit losses in day trading (I haven't done this for a long time now). I also love to trade actively.
I think your father, who has no stock market experience so far, should take a defensive approach. So max. 20-25% more speculative. Imagine you have now persuaded him to invest his savings and in 5 years' time, when he retires, 50,000 will be gone. You'll also be disinherited for the rest 😉😂

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Kowalski@pinguin-

3D

@Multibagger He has been observing my portfolio for some time now and used to hold shares sporadically, so he is not completely ignorant. Should also be invested rather defensively.

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PietAT@Petzi-Port

3D

Hi, I'm not sure anymore, but I once saw a post comparing a distributing world ETF with a high-dividend ETF. The distribution of the high-dividend ETF was only about 0.5% higher than that of the world ETF, while the performance of the high-dividend ETF was significantly worse.

@TomTurboInvest knows more about this :)

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Kowalski@pinguin-

3D

@Petzi-Port Interesting. So you could also go in the direction of only $VWRL?

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PietAT@Petzi-Port

3D

@pinguin- I would already do that. If it were 0.5% more in distributions than the All World, but the performance is almost 10% behind, that would be a blatant loss.

If I were him, I would invest in the All World and also save extra each month. With 200k invested, he has 2.4k distributions per year in addition to price gains. From a certain age, he should also think about saving in the custody account.

@Harley63 can tell you more about how to relax your savings. He may also be able to give you some tips

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

3D

@Petzi-Port
I think there is a lot of material on this. I think if he is not absolutely dependent on the money, he should focus on growth stocks. 200000,- €, let's assume a 10% return. That's already 20000,-€ per year, so another 100000,-€ could certainly be added in the 5 years. So let's assume 300K at retirement age, with a return of 10% I get 30000,-€ price gain per year. From this, he withdraws €1000 per month (€12000 per year). The rest remains in the portfolio and could continue to grow. The whole thing is calculated without the snowball effect and dividends. But also without a bear market.
Is that too positive a calculation?

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PietAT@Petzi-Port

3D

@Tenbagger2024 I completely agree with you. Since he wrote about an ETF, I would not have considered individual stocks. I think that with an all-world ETF, provided there are no extreme bear markets, he can certainly achieve this result.

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

3D

@Petzi-Port Without knowing the whole situation, it's difficult to give tips, and I'm not an investment advisor either😅
The question is how the current 200k should be used in retirement?
Leave it as a reserve or gradually withdraw it to improve the pension?
In any case, I would spread it across several asset classes. Depending on the case, the appropriate risk setting should be applied.
If, for example, no immediate withdrawal is planned, the investment period is even longer regardless of the start of the pension.

To come back to your question, high-yield ETFs naturally focus on companies with lower growth but higher dividends. Are distributions currently needed? If not, then at least the equity component should focus on growth. But as already written, without knowing the overall situation, including the real estate situation, it is not serious to make recommendations.

In the best case scenario, I still have around 10 years until I retire, in the worst case 15 years, and I am already taking risk out of my portfolio. I'm no longer interested in outperformance at any price, I no longer want to lose my capital. An average return is enough for me.

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PietAT@Petzi-Port

3D

@TomTurboInvest yes, of course you're not an investment advisor, I know that :)

I thought I'd tag you as you have good opinions and can help them out

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TomTurboInvest@TomTurboInvest

3D

@Petzi-Port I just wanted to add that it's clear that I'm just one of the "swarm" here and that my opinion is also just an individual opinion. But I'm happy to add my two cents 😅

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Kowalski@pinguin-

3D

@TomTurboInvest In fact a mixture of both.

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Andreas@Harley63

3D

@Petzi-Port Hm, of course I don't know the whole situation, so a savings strategy depends very much on your personal life situation.

But a good website for this is, for example, https://www.finanzfluss.de/rechner/entnahmeplan/

You can play around with these calculators and tips and work out your own strategy. Good luck and best wishes

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Finanzaristokrat@Finanzaristokrat

3D

I would just like to contribute something to the removal. Always remember the FIFO principle. First in first out. This may hardly come into play here if you invest xxx€ at once. But over a longer period of years and decades, it is an advantage to follow a legal tax trick. This can save you several thousand euros

https://www.finanztip.de/indexfonds-etf/etf-verkaufen/?utm_source=spiegel/

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Dividende > Zinsen@GoDividend

4D

Now let him read the #gqevergreens and decide for himself

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Tenbagger2024@Tenbagger2024

3D

Difficult to say. Is he dependent on the money after 5 years. Or can the portfolio continue to run. If there is no financial knowledge and time to manage the portfolio, I would opt for a safe ETF with growth prospects.

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Kowalski@pinguin-

3D

@Tenbagger2024 The pension is then just enough to cover everything. It will serve as a pension top-up and then be passed on to me later.

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Harald@Madhatter5566

3D

I would make it dependent on what he needs in retirement. Is the pension basically enough for normal living expenses? Yes, but then he wants to save and use the savings? No, he must somehow use additional money from the savings? Or does he simply want to pass it on later?

Depending on the age, it has to be invested. If it is needed, it should no longer be 100% shares. If he simply wants to withdraw additional money as needed or doesn't want to touch it anyway, then continue to invest broadly in the market. Does he always need something extra every month in something that pays out a bit?

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Kowalski@pinguin-

3D

@Madhatter5566 Pension is enough to cover everything, but not much more. It's planned as a top-up and will then be passed on to me.

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Harald@Madhatter5566

3D

@pinguin- Then into a world ETF, either distributing dividends or always selling small units. Mathematically and technically, there is no difference between dividends and partial sales as required. Partial selling is even more flexible because you sell when you really need to and don't wait for dividend day.

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Udo@Cash-Flow-Cow

3D

Perhaps with the following three in a dividend strategy or primarily dividend growth for a monthly cash flow:
- WisdomTree Global Quality Dividend Growth UCITS ETF (WKN A2AG1D),
- Fidelity US Quality Income ETF (WKN A2DL7C) and
- VanEck Morningstar Developed Markets Dividend Leaders (WKN: A2JAHJ)

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Pezi@Pezi

3D

Is your father really convinced of YOUR plans?

If I were you, I would only invest 10-20% at first and see how your father feels about it...

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Kowalski@pinguin-

3D

@Pezi Has been watching my portfolio for over 2 years now. He already knows what he's getting into

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Pezi@Pezi

3D

@pinguin- It's one thing to watch when everything is going up and you don't own it, but it's quite another to invest your long-saved money and lose 10, 20 or 30%. You still have all the time in the world to sit out a dropdown, but if I've understood correctly, your father would like to treat himself to some of his savings in a few years' time...

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Kowalski@pinguin-

3D

@Pezi Which stocks would you start with slowly?

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Pezi@Pezi

3D

@pinguin- would invest around 30,000 euros in a world ETF, a dividend ETF or gold, depending on your personal preferences. If you are familiar with bonds, that would also be an option.
I would leave the rest as overnight money for the time being. Your dad should have a good feeling about it at the beginning and be able to handle it.

From my own experience: my sister also started investing 2 years ago on the advice of her husband. At the beginning, she couldn't cope with daily losses of 100 euros and checked her portfolio 20 times a day. Some people have to get used to it.

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Dominik@Dominik_76

2D

@pinguin- So if he has only followed your portfolio for 2 years, then he has only seen the sunny side of the stock market. In theory, you think you'll be able to withstand this emotionally, but if there's a 50% drawdown that doesn't pass like the yen trade or corona or 2022 in a few days or months, then it's not without its problems. You can only assess it realistically once you've been there.

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Kate💎 🙌.@Iwanowitsch

3D

🥹

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Thorsten@Enyaq

3D

100% physical gold in the vault, in 1oz or 50g bars. Gold has made around 8% per year over the last 50 years and the gains are 100% tax-free after 12 months of holding!!!

P. S. In the last year gold has performed well with 32%.

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Korni@Korni193773

3D

Take a look at the A0F5UH. It would be suitable for retirement and also pays out well!

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Stephan K.@StrahlemannLP

1D

That depends on the amount of pension he can expect and to what extent he is dependent on this money and whether he has any other reserves. If not, I would do a 50% split, keep one part in cash and then put the other part on the capital market.

For me, the tendency there would be towards an insurance product. Assuming that your father can manage with his €100,000 to the extent that he ideally only rarely needs to access his remaining investment, then this can work peacefully and generate further reserves. If your father wants to pay for expensive wishes, this can also be used.

In my opinion, an insurance product that invests in ETFs and funds is very worthwhile, as in this case the capital is paid out as an insurance benefit in the event of death and is exempt from inheritance tax. What you save there pays any fees twice or three times over.

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userfb8e2d21661c4768@userfb8e2d21661c4768

1D

The period of 5 years is actually too short to be able to say for sure that it will end positively. In any case, he shouldn't invest everything, but rather broadly diversified in an ETF. Perhaps start with tranches of €10,000 per month!

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U D.@market_analyst_466

1D

I think you should probably cover part of this with bonds. 30/70 is a general rule (maybe 10-20% bonds are enough) - to bridge lean periods on the stock market. There are some people here who also know about this.

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Mario V.@SuperMarioEmpire

2H

For 5 years I would do 1/2 in euwax Gold 2 which is then completely tax-free and 1/2 nasdaq 100 accumulating...

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