No se ha encontrado

Alfred E. · 2024-09-09T10:19:41.851795Z

Kinderdepot - ETF 2x Produkte als Rendite Booster ? Eure Meinung Der Normale Sparplan fürs Kind läuft mit Klassischen Ishares MSCI World & EM mit 75%/25% Aufteilung. Nächste Jahr gibt ja grandiose 5€ mehr Kindergeld also mach ich mal 25€ raus. Bin jetzt am überlegen kleinen Rendite Booster (natürlich mit höheren Risiko +das er Daily berechnet wird und tendenziell etwas stärker bei minus Bewegung runtergeht als bei Plus ist mir klar ) draufzupacken. 25€ zusätzlich p.M. auf : (sind also pi mal Daumen 300€ p.a. mal ~15 Jahre= 4.500€) $CL2 Amumbi 2X MSCI USA Daily (0,5% TER) $LQQ Amumbi 2X Nasdaq Daily (0,6% TER) $DBPG Xtracker S&P 500 2x Daily (0,6% TER) oder eher langweiliges Momentum $XDEM : MSCI World Momentum (0,25% TER) SOS incoming

Alfred E.

@Papiertiger

4Lun·

Children's custody account - ETF 2x products as a return booster? Your opinion

The normal savings plan for the child runs with classic Ishares MSCI World & EM with 75%/25% allocation.

Next year there will be a grandiose 5€ more child benefit so I'll take out 25€.

I'm now thinking about adding a small yield booster (of course with higher risk + I realize that it is calculated daily and tends to go down a little more with minus movement than with plus).

25€ additional p.m. on : (so pi times thumb 300€ p.a. times ~15 years= 4.500€)

$CL2 (+0,66 %) Amumbi 2X MSCI USA Daily (0.5% TER)

$LQQ (+1,52 %) Amumbi 2X Nasdaq Daily (0.6% TER)

$DBPG (+0,86 %) Xtracker S&P 500 2x Daily (0.6% TER)

or rather boring momentum

$XDEM (+0,84 %) MSCI World Momentum (0.25% TER)

SOS incoming

20 Comentarios

Epi@Epi

4Lun

Perhaps you should take a closer look at this before deciding on a savings plan for leveraged ETFs rather than watching a Thomas video?
Example: 1. when investing in the 2xQQQ in 2000, it only caught up with the 1xQQQ in 2020. Before that it underperformed. 2. the psychological pressure of a 90% drawdown should not be underestimated! If there is only 1k left of 10k savings for the children, even mom gets nervous. Not selling then puts a strain on you and your relationship.

That's why leveraged ETFs should normally be flanked by a volume-reducing strategy. Otherwise it will backfire. The best way to do this is to read research.

•

Uwe@SchlaubiSchlumpf

4Lun

@Epi Possible would be e.g. the leveraged S&P 50:50 to bonds or gold with monthly rebalancing or? It's not really my topic, I just thought about what I would do without further reading.

••

Epi@Epi

4Lun

@SchlaubiSchlumpf Well, I've been working on such an idea for a few weeks now. There's not much on the net about "asset optimization with leveraged ETFs". I have to keep testing it myself. Savings plan returns and taxes are also a topic that I don't have a 100% overview of yet. Let's see, maybe I'll write a post about it. Then we can discuss it. 🤷👍

•

Uwe@SchlaubiSchlumpf

4Lun

@Epi sounds exciting. I'll wait and see.

I probably won't change my core strategy. But you can think outside the box or do something like this on the side for a while as a gimmick. The problem with something like this is that it always has to work over a longer period of time, at best 30 years in retrospect, for which you usually don't get any backtests without major effort.

••

Enrique@Dividenden_Monteur

4Lun

@SchlaubiSchlumpf @Epi I did some banal backtesting with getquin today and I came across the problem with the lev. etf that the splits and closings are not really specified here.
For example, if I enter $QQQ3 in 2018, I am almost a millionaire.

•

Epi@Epi

4Lun

@Der_Dividenden_Monteur Yes, the backtests are difficult with these special ETFs. Try Portfoliovisualizer and 200% leverage with 3% interest rate. That's about right with 3xQQQ.

•

Tino@parlania

4Lun

Still thinking about it, but prefer the nasdaq x2 or x3 - no risk no fun 😂

•

Alfred E.@Papiertiger

4Lun

@parlania the 3x is quite expensive at 0.75, isn't it?

••

Tino@parlania

4Lun

@Papiertiger yes, unfortunately, but make a benchmark over a few years

••

Enrique@Dividenden_Monteur

4Lun

@parlania
Benchmark does not work with leveraged etfs, or the results are wrong.
They do not run for years like an etf but are regularly split and/or closed and reissued.

••

Tino@parlania

4Lun

@Der_Dividenden_Monteur $QQQ3 and $LQQ can be benchmarked here in the app over several years?

••

Kevin E.@KevinE

4Lun

Definitely not suitable as a buy and hold. 1.5 leverage perhaps, but no more.

•

Epi@Epi

4Lun

@KevinE Why not under any circumstances? In combination with uncorrelated ETFs it might work...

••

Enrique@Dividenden_Monteur

4Lun

A leveraged ETF brings you less return in the long term.
These are active products.

•

Epi@Epi

4Lun

@Der_Dividenden_Monteur Where did you get the information?

••

Nostradonkey💩@DonkeyInvestor

4Lun

Is it even allowed to leverage in the children's portfolio? I would be fine with momentum

•

Alfred E.@Papiertiger

4Lun

@DonkeyInvestor You can also buy normal shares and penny stocks.
Every company on the market has a level of debt and is always indirectly leveraged,

••

Nostradonkey💩@DonkeyInvestor

4Lun

@Papiertiger For children, you can only buy investments that are not too speculative. That's why I'm a little surprised

•

Alfred E.@Papiertiger

4Lun

@DonkeyInvestor 3x is not possible as far as I can see, as it is no longer considered a special asset but a derivative. 2x is permitted if you actively reconfirm your knowledge with Comdirect/Ing.

•

Tim@Stratege_Tim

4Lun

The question is also what you see this new ETf as: as the only product or as a supplement to an MSCI World? If as a stand-alone product, then rather the leveraged MSCI USA, if as a supplement, then sometimes also in combination with the leveraged NASDAQ.

•