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@Papiertiger I took a look at the Amundi homepage. This is handled in the same way as if you sold your old shares and bought the new ones. So all profits are taxed. Pretty annoying!

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Alfred E.@Papiertiger

3Lun

@JanWPB ein 💩

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Alfred E.@Papiertiger

3Lun

I also looked it up. it's treated like a trade. SUCH A Crap...

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René@Booz

3Lun

Exactly:

Tax aspects of a cross-border merger for German investors:
According to Section 23 (4) InvStG, cross-border mergers, such as this one, cannot be taxed for
investors who are subject to unlimited tax liability in the Federal Republic of Germany cannot be
tax-neutral in the Federal Republic of Germany. Accordingly, the merger is treated for tax purposes
as if the units of the sub-fund that ceases to exist were sold on the transfer date and the units
the units of the absorbing sub-fund received as a result of the merger were newly acquired.
This procedure is taken into account by the custodian bank. The investor does not need to
arrange anything further.

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Jan D.@Jan_Drosch

3Lun

@JanWPB I see it the same way, and that annoys me massively. How will the dividend work in December? Surely it won't just be canceled, will it?

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Hebel-Horst@DoppelSchlechtMinus

3Lun

What kind of tax difference do you mean?

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Alfred E.@Papiertiger

3Lun

@Dividensenmann TLDR: US dividends are very favorable. So rather mini advantage.
Anyone who calls themselves Divden... should know that 😂

ChatCPG:

Whether an ETF domiciled in Luxembourg or Ireland is better depends on a number of factors, including tax advantages, cost structure and regulatory differences. Both countries are very popular domiciles for ETFs in Europe. Here are some key differences and considerations:

1. tax advantages

- Ireland: ETFs launched in Ireland often have tax advantages, especially for dividends from US stocks. Irish ETFs are subject to a favorable double tax treaty with the US, which means that dividends from US stocks are subject to a withholding tax of only 15% instead of the regular 30%.
- Luxembourg: Luxembourg also offers favorable tax conditions, but the advantage for US dividends is not as pronounced as in Ireland. A withholding tax of 30% is generally levied on US dividends here, which can reduce the net income from these shares.

2 Regulatory differences

- Ireland: ETFs in Ireland are subject to the regulations of the Central Bank of Ireland. Ireland is a very popular location for ETFs due to its efficient fund ecosystem and strong financial regulation.
- Luxembourg: ETFs from Luxembourg are subject to the regulations of the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF), which is considered to be very stable and well regulated. Luxembourg is known for its strong fund management and many years of experience in the investment fund sector.

3. cost structure

- ETFs from both countries generally have low management costs. However, Ireland is often preferred because many large ETF providers such as Vanguard and iShares launch their European ETFs there, which can lead to more competitive costs.

4. accumulating vs. distributing

- Both Luxembourg and Ireland offer accumulating (reinvestment of income) and distributing ETFs. Depending on your tax situation, an accumulating ETF could offer advantages in your country.

5 Popularity and availability

- Ireland has established itself as a leading location for European ETFs in recent years, particularly due to the tax advantages of US equities. Many of the largest ETFs in Europe are domiciled in Ireland.

Conclusion:

For European investors, Irish ETFs are often more attractive due to the more favorable taxation of US dividends, especially if the ETF is heavily invested in US equities. On the other hand, if the ETF invests in other markets or if the tax aspect is not so important to you, ETFs in Luxembourg are also a solid option.

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Hebel-Horst@DoppelSchlechtMinus

3Lun

@Papiertiger In Luxembourg, however, this depends on the legal form. These ETFs should also have only paid 15% on US dividends so far. Feel free to ask ChatGPT again whether he is sure and whether he knows the difference between FCP and SICAV...

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Paul@Westchester

3Lun

In addition to possible tax advantages, I have another question: one is accumulating, the other distributing.... So what does the new, larger ETF do? Distribute or accumulate?

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Jan@JanWPB

3Lun

@Westchester There are two new ones, ETF210 and ETF211. One accumulating, one distributing.

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Paul@Westchester

3Lun

Thank you very much! Then I just overinterpreted the statement "summarize".
Merci!

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OldWhiteGuy@amanaplanacanalpanama

3Lun

Doesn't that always mean fictitious realization of earnings and new acquisition across borders, i.e. taxation of book profits? But you may need cash on hand this late in the year...

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Jan@JanWPB

3Lun

@amanaplanacanalpanama Exactly, profits made so far are taxed. Does the bank then deduct this from the cash account and the value of the shares remains the same?

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OldWhiteGuy@amanaplanacanalpanama

3Lun

@JanWPB I mean, that's what happened to me at ING when I merged $USA (FR-ISIN) with $USA (IE-ISIN). I'd better make sure I have enough cash in my clearing account on 22.11. so that Baader doesn't make another golden nose out of it...

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René@Booz

3Lun

@amanaplanacanalpanama From the Amundi site:

Tax aspects of a cross-border merger for German investors:
Pursuant to Section 23 (4) InvStG, cross-border mergers such as this one cannot be taxed for
investors who are subject to unlimited tax liability in the Federal Republic of Germany.
tax-neutral in the Federal Republic of Germany. Accordingly, the merger is treated for tax purposes
as if the units of the sub-fund that ceases to exist were sold on the transfer date and the units
the units of the absorbing sub-fund received as a result of the merger were newly acquired.
This procedure is taken into account by the custodian bank. The investor does not need to
arrange anything further.

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

3Lun

They just want to rob us of our dividend 😀
The old one pays out in December. The new one will certainly be in October...

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Jan D.@Jan_Drosch

3Lun

@Hotte1909 I'm also concerned about this scenario. Hopefully it's not like that, is it? I assume that there will still be a distribution...

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

3Lun

@Jan_Drosch Anything is possible, but I hope that there will be a distribution. Then it will probably be a case of wait and see. I had already thought so as Amundi announced the dividends of some ETFs last month but this one was not among them

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Jan D.@Jan_Drosch

3Lun

That would of course be audacious. Issue November 15 with exD and merger then Nov. 22.
The new one doesn't even exist yet. So you're pretty much in the fog about what it will "look like" in concrete terms. Not nice.

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Patrick Schäfer@Hotte1909

3Lun

@Jan_Drosch I hope that the TER remains the same. That was one reason why I opted for it at the time. Well, and the fact that Voba only had Amundi ETFs 😀

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Kevin E.@KevinE

2Lun

@Jan_Drosch The money from the dividend would not be gone, at most it would be reinvested in this case. It can't simply be put in your pocket by the fund company 😃

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Jan D.@Jan_Drosch

2Lun

@KevinE I hope the FG sees it the same way. 😊
As I'm already in the withdrawal phase, it's not entirely irrelevant to me whether it's reinvested or distributed. Well, let's hope for the best.

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Kevin E.@KevinE

2Lun

@Jan_Drosch I had Lyxor ETFs (MSCI World) that were taken over by Amundi (2021 or 2022). Everything was fine with the distribution.

PS: Congratulations on reaching the withdrawal phase!

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Nico@FalconGER

2Lun

@Hotte1909 is like this

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David@DerUnwissende

2Lun

The dividend doesn't matter because every etf immediately reinvests. Distributing etfs only sell shares at the time of the distributions and then give the money to us. Cash is never actually kept for distributions. Therefore, technically it makes no difference whether they pay out dividends or not. You can sell without hesitation

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user4b4dadc65bdc46b0@user4b4dadc65bdc46b0

3Lun

25% of the profit gone, thanks Amundi!

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Lama@MLana

2Lun

Are you selling yourself or are you waiting?

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