Do I have the wrong mindset?

11H

@Brazzo_Muc The thing about me is that I think investing is my hobby. Sure, I go to the gym every day and do my strength training there, and I do it very well. But the rest of my day is really all about capitalism. Whether I'm at the bank or listening to Markus Koch's podcast in the morning and evening. But I can identify with it relatively well and I really enjoy it. I think my only problem is being too frugal...

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Kalle@Brazzo_Muc

10H

@der_Don As long as you feel comfortable with it and have fun, it's not a problem. Life is also not a straight line, but runs like the stock market 📈 stock market 📉. As you get older, other impulses or people may come along and you may take a different direction. Don't worry so much about it. The mindset of dealing with money etc. is definitely priceless. Others your age buy a new iPhone every year and order 3L bottles in clubs. I don't know if that makes you happier. All the best to you!

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10H

@Brazzo_Muc Thank you and thank you for your contribution. All the best to you too!

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Jürgen@Creek

Only check the portfolio 10 times a day? :)

I'm not a trader but a longterm investor ... buy and hold ... and I've often checked it 10 times and it wasn't noon yet :D

... so yes, lots of weirdos here.

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10H

Your question as to whether it is the wrong mindset to only think about money all the time is justified.

In short: yes, it is. What else could it be? Money is a means, not an end. Always thinking only about means, but never about ends, is a reversal of priorities.

What should you do? Ask yourself what you need the money for. So seriously: house? House for what? Family? What for? Full bank account? What's the profit in that?

Imagine you were at the end of your current journey: 2 million deposit, nice house, pretty wife, nice children. What would you do with your life then? What goals would you still have?

These are probably difficult questions for someone who has so far turned the means into the end. Sort them out and your mindset will sort itself out! 👍

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10H

@Epi Strong words from you, thank you.
As already mentioned in other comments, the problem is probably that I think I don't have enough money. Although the statistics say otherwise and I also see it in my social environment. I don't know anyone my age who has more money than me. But that doesn't matter and it's not important. I think it would be very healthy for me to stop looking at how much others have and, above all, who has more than me. Because I think that's the problem. I always see how others share big profits here, share deposits amounting to several thousand euros. I always forget that I also make and have made big profits and how much I actually have. Just like Instagram models and young women. Never thought I'd end up in such a bubble... 😂

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10H

@Epi You often ask very good and critical questions.
You always make me think and reflect.

What would interest me is what do you do when you have achieved everything financially? Where is your focus then?
Vacation? Working what you enjoy?
For my part, I can't answer that question.

Does it even make sense to think about it now, when at the age of 20 you are still a long way from the moment: "What to do when you have a house, a wife & happy, children about to grow up and the bank account is well covered".

Focus and goals are good, but thinking too far ahead would again put pressure on yourself.

Just let life run its course. Accept situations & make the best of them.

My favorite quote: the journey is the reward! 💪🏼

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10H

@der_Don Yes, the well-known social envy can get you down. It doesn't matter which of your "assets" you compare. 😏
It's always something that you "have", your being remains subordinate and takes care of itself. You end up with bitchy Instamodels or assy cryptoboys. Empty shells with all the bells and whistles. Do you want to be one of them? You're on the right track.

Having money is nice, but I'm telling you, you never have enough and someone always has more. It's an eternal, aimless hamster wheel. When you realize that, life becomes hell.

That's the flip side of the Getquin bubble: people are praying to Mammon. The question of a meaningful life and what role money could play in it is not addressed here. Yet this is the very first step in meaningful financial planning. Optimization without a target function. 😅

Well, at least you have the question and realize that something is wrong. Maybe you'll find your way out of the hell of the pointlessness of the eternal hunt for more! 😏

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10H

@Epi I hope so😂
No, you're right. If I carry on like this, I'll end up in a bubble that you really can't get out of. But I'm not jealous that others have more than I do. I come from a very good family. That's why I never really cared how much others had because I always knew my parents had a lot of money too. But since I've been on my own two feet, I've slowly had to convince myself that I have a lot of money for my age. Because as you've already said, otherwise you get into a vicious circle that you can't get out of.

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10H

@Sunrise-Mantis Well, what do I do when I'm financially free? I'm not sure I'm the right person to ask this question. Not that I don't have an answer, but one that is understandable given your background? 🤔

I'll keep it short: by financially free I mean a life where you don't HAVE to do anything for money anymore. Does it mean no longer working? Absolutely not! It means that you work at what fulfills you, what gives your life meaning. And if you do that well, then money usually comes in too. So the question of meaning must be answered in any case if you want to be financially free. Without an answer, you are not free even with a 10 million deposit.

And yes, in your early to mid-20s is the ideal time to think about it, because you are now determining the direction of your life: Hamster wheel or ascent to something higher? Heaven or hell? When else, at 40? 60? 80? Then it's over.

The pressure to answer this question should be endured, not ignored. At some point, if you take it seriously, the answer will come. And then all the other questions will clear up.

I have a target return of 1.5%pM with my strategy basket. That currently gives me a second income. Am I financially free? In 5 years it will be more than the family income. Then? But my life won't change. Maybe in 5-10 years I can help others financially to devote themselves to fundamental issues? Set up a foundation for scholarships or something. We'll see. Exciting, but nothing fundamental. 👍

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10H

@der_Don Ah yes. You don't have to prove to your parents that you're a good son by raking in lots and lots of money.
It's better to show that by answering the question with your life WHAT a lot of money is good for.
And no, making even more money is not the point of money. 😅

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Susanne@Isus01010

10H

@der_Don you are certainly one of the younger ones here, don't forget that when you see the portfolio values. You can calculate how much your portfolio will be worth in 20 years ;)
I studied in my early 20s, had a little bit in my savings account and at the end of the month I scraped together the last few cents for food in the canteen.
But I have 1000 fond memories of that time. You're only young once, you can't buy that back with any money in the world

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Olli@Olli68

11H

Don't be angry with me, but that sounds very sad. You should do some soul-searching and rethink your mindset. Money is just a means to an end. It should never be the focus of your life.
You are young and should still have a lot to experience. If you invest money "on the side", that's certainly good. But don't miss out on real life. RocknRoll and all that...

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Cekay@CMustermann

10H

You have exactly the right mindset. This is an EXTREME bubble, probably the top 10% of Germany is represented here, if not more. I still had €36,000 in student debt at 21, 7 years later the portfolio is at 300K and I feel like we still have no money. That's completely normal. Just keep it up!

But please live your life too. Spend some money on vacations, meet women (or men), go have fun with the guys. When you're almost 30, you hardly have time for that and life is all about work.

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11H

Greetings Don.
I understand your situation quite well.

Briefly about me: I'm currently 27 years old, work well and a lot, have just started studying alongside my full-time job. Leisure time is currently of secondary importance, but it doesn't bother me because I like to continue my education and work.
My assets currently stand at €250,000..... I think that's really crazy and it feels really good, but I still spend my money very consciously.

I go out very little, so I spend very little money on partying. I have an inexpensive car and make sure that the ancillary costs are kept within reasonable limits. Vacations are a different matter, however, as my girlfriend and I attach great importance to them. I also like to spend more money here to create lasting memories.

I once thought about creating a "monthly budget" for fun, but I don't feel comfortable with that. In my situation, I do the things I enjoy and money is secondary, but I'm generally frugal and therefore have enough money left over.

If you already have 30k on the side at the age of 20, you're on the right track. Don't worry too much..... you're "right" in terms of long-term wealth accumulation.

Don't let life be too short kommen💪🏼 Do something with your money & treat yourself sometimes.

Investing and building up capital should be fun and, in my opinion, something you do on the side. Find a job that is fun and fulfills you, invest in your education, it will never be taken away from you & go your own way😉

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11H

@Sunrise-Mantis I can actually really identify with you. Thank you for your comment. I've often thought about this "fun money" thing and often wanted to do it, but it never came to anything. But I also kind of like this lifestyle. But of course, I also spend money. Last weekend I went out with my girlfriend in Mannheim and spent €2000 in one day. But that's just an exception. At the end of the day, I just don't like spending money on myself. Unless it's for education etc. I don't skimp on that either. It's also a kind of investment in yourself.
Thanks again for your comment.

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10H

@der_Don Please do.
I also see a certain similarity between us.

You must feel comfortable with that. I live below my means, but who cares. For me, it's perfect the way it is 😉
I need little to no prestige & just because I know I could afford certain luxuries, I don't need the pieces.

I have a racing hobby & it costs a lot some weekends, but it's fun & I treat myself to the luxury.
Define your "luxuries" for yourself.
Don't make the mistake of thinking "I need a Rolex, a car that costs at least XY but has at least 300 HP" because my neighbor, friend, colleague, ..... owns it.

Live your life... everything is open to you & with a little money in the background you have fewer worries & more opportunities.

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10H

@Sunrise-Mantis I actually bought a Rolex 2 months ago😂 but not to impress, but for myself. I only wear it on special occasions, so very rarely, otherwise it's just in my room. I think my problem is simply this thought: I have too little money or not enough money.
I think it's because I look left and right too much instead of looking at myself and what I have

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10H

@der_Don if you can just buy a Rolex at the age of 20 & invest thousands of euros, then you're not short of money😂
I think you should travel to Africa and talk to the locals there. They have completely different worries. It opens your eyes to how exaggeratedly well off we are. These are real luxury problems.

It doesn't have to be Africa, but generally go through the world with open eyes and open hearts. Our eastern neighbors alone are worse off on average. Take a look at the median income in Bulgaria (yes, not a neighboring country, but never mind). 😅 The EU difference alone is huge

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10H

@Sunrise-Mantis The Rolex didn't cost €40,000, but I understand what you mean. As I said, it makes sense for me to get my act together and start realizing what I've built up over the last 3 years.

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10H

@der_Don exactly. 💪🏼
Don't put too much pressure on them, they'll be fine. Just enjoy it. Or learn to enjoy it.

Building wealth is not a sprint but a marathon.

You can't always run a marathon at full speed. The important thing is consistency and that you can enjoy it & know why you are doing it.

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10H

@Sunrise-Mantis I agree with you. Thank you very much for this insightful exchange 🙏

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burnheart@burnheart

10H

Youth is the most precious time. Don't worry too much and don't forget to enjoy life and gain experience. Don't be too hard on yourself either. The older you get, the more your salary will increase and your absolute savings rate will be higher without you having to restrict yourself. When I was 20, I was still studying and was happy to have a 0 in my account :-)

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Metis@Metis

11H

Precisely because you were aiming for the comparison, you should focus on the fact that you are way ahead of most of your peers.

Try to find the right balance between saving and investing and spending money on hobbies and life.
And if you can't do it on your own, please seek professional help. Because saving too much, turning over every penny too much, even though you have enough money, can also make you ill, just like having no money at all.

Many people your age have student loans of this amount that they still have to pay off. You, on the other hand, have assets of this amount. Be happy about this and enjoy life alongside saving and investing.

Addendum: perhaps build yourself a strategy for "spending wisely". A monthly budget, one trip abroad per year, adventure trips 4 times a year... something that you enjoy and that gives you emotional and psychological added value alongside the material things.

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NEWT@SteelAnacott

11H

Typical thoughts of a generation that fears that its future is no better than that of the previous one. I recently read that studies show that some people your age feel this way. No wonder, since the "economic miracle" things have only gone uphill for Germany, each generation has been better off economically on average than the previous one. At the moment, it is very uncertain whether this will continue.

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Alfred E.@Papiertiger

11H

Don't forget to live in the here and now. I say that with a few more years under my belt.

And otherwise outside the finance bubble.
99.99% of the time, the path to happiness is :
Stable and many real friends/social relationships.
So go out and pursue your hobbies and make money for them too.

75 Year long Study https://youtu.be/8KkKuTCFvzI?si=PI7gib01yitOVC3U

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ElMaños@LittleFranki

I will also answer this question, as I correlate very strongly. I am now 23 and have assets of around 160,000 euros. I have now entered into real estate and PV investments in order to diversify further and am always looking for new and further investment opportunities. I'm not sure if you can ever put the basic idea aside. Saving is so deeply rooted that it's always my top priority. The prospect of no longer having to work, for example, doesn't give me much support, because even if I extrapolate that in my younger years, I still have to save for what feels like half an eternity.

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Simon_n@Simon_n

Same situation here. I guess I'll just think about what I want from it without a cell phone and everything.
Otherwise you can't get out of the hamster wheel of comparison, and I'm even younger than you 😬
But I can recommend Morgan Housel, for example, his way of thinking has already helped me a lot

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@Simon_n It definitely makes sense to sit down in peace and quiet to get down to earth and appreciate what you actually have.

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To put it stupidly, it depends on where the money comes from.

Mommy/daddy laid the foundation stone and you're swimming on top because of it, then be happy, but it's not your merit. And it's not always just the money they put down, but education, the foundation stones they gave you, etc.

If it's your own, then that's rare. Imagine you do earn money, but you have to build up your household, driver's license, car, etc. Having something saved up at a young age is just rare.

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@Madhatter5566 I openly and honestly admit that €6,000 is from mom and dad. So that's the savings bond I was talking about. The remaining €24/25,000 is mine.
To be fair, it has to be said that I also got my driver's license and my car as gifts. I don't have to pay housing benefit or anything like that either.

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@der_Don There you have it. Money from parents, no driver's license, no car that others have to take on credit. Probably also SF from your parents for insurance? No housing benefit.

It's not bad now, but it's also no wonder that you're far from the median. Many people are struggling with a car alone, let alone an apartment, let alone a driver's license.

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@Madhatter5566 Insurance is also paid by the parents...
I know what you're getting at and I agree with you 1000%.

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@der_Don Then the question should be how you make the most of your situation. Not having the hard costs now puts you in a position to really build yourself up and make yourself independent. Regardless of whether your parents continue to support you or not.

Because at some point the support will stop. At least you have to expect that.

20,000 may be a lot for your age, but it's not if you have a family of your own or you spend it without looking. If you do the math, your savings are actually only there because of the support. (2-3 k driving license, car (well I don't know, but assume 3-4 k for a driving car with TÜV which is safe at least), 1k insurance you would have to carry alone without SF from someone else annually, 6k subsidy)

Probably more if you consider that reserves are incredibly money saving (yes being poor is expensive).
Good to invest and save in itself.

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@Madhatter5566 My driver's license cost just under 3.5k and my car 25k. On the other hand, my parents have reduced their financial support at my request. Because in recent years I have had little experience of what it is like to have expenses. Sure, it's nice because you live a free life, but when the time comes to move into your own house with everything around it and buy and insure your own car and you have no experience of what it's like when there are deductions, you never get to know the value of money and how to handle it.

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